Alfred Street Baptist Church Presents "Can I Push It?" with Pastor Howard-John Wesley - Episode 1

0:33 Beloved grace and peace be unto you from God who loves us as a father and a mother. In Jesus Christ, our resurrected, our risen, our reigning and our returning redeemer. I'm Pastor Howard-John Wesley here at the Alpha Street Baptist Church in Alexandria, Virginia. And I am excited to welcome you to this, our first new virtual Bible study during this pandemic where we're all sheltered safely. I'm thankful to God for the opportunity to come into your home, on your phone, wherever you may be, to engage us in a little bit of time of talking about the God that we love and the God that we serve. This is not Bible study as usual. There are a couple things that make it different. Number one, we're going live. Right now, we are here in the heart of Alfred Street, and I'm grateful for our AV team. They've gotten it all together. But because we're live, there may be some glitches here and there. Maybe some noise outside. You may hear some brothers and sisters walking by, having loud conversations. Just ignore it. Also, it gives us an opportunity to be interactive.

1:29 Not so much this week, but next week when we gather, you'll be able to send in questions. The team will be monitoring those and they'll feed them to me and we'll have an opportunity to engage in some discussion and just a little bit about some deep theological issues. And the third thing we'll let you know is that maybe this really isn't Bible study. The reason we're going to call it, can I push it, is that I want to push you a little bit beyond a place where all we do is quote scripture to resolve issues. If you're used to Bible study being that we raise an issue and then we look up every scripture in the Bible that relates to it, this isn't what this is. If you're used to that Sunday school Bible study where you read a verse and you tell me what you think it means and I read a verse and I tell you what I think it means, this really isn't it. This is not a scripture quoting Bible study. I want to invite you into a space where we use the Bible for something bigger.

2:26 To talk about God. to talk about what we believe, to look at our interpretation of scripture, see its implications in the world in which we live, and ask ourselves repeatedly a critical question. Does this interpretation and its implication align itself with the picture and the portrait of God that I hold near and dear, and how does it affect the world in which we live? We are going to talk about God, and here's the dangerous part, which makes this a Bible study not for everyone. We're going to do it out loud. We're going to do it out loud. And I realize that that is some sensitive areas. Well, let you know something about how I got here. I am born and bred Baptist, which means that I've been raised in churches where the word of God was read and that settled every issue. Baptist born, Baptist bred. When I die, I'll probably be Baptist dead.

3:21 I was raised in the Lillydale Progressive Missionary Baptist Church on the south side of Chicago. I don't know why we called it progressive because there was nothing progressive about that church at all. Shout out to its new pastor, Romel Williams, for the great job he's doing in that church. So being born and bred Baptist, old school Baptist, I was born and raised to believe certain things. Women don't preach and gays are going to hell. And the reality is for each position, there was some scripture attached to it. I could quote the passages about why women don't preach. I had it drilled into me, the passages about why gays are going to hell. And then something happened. I got out into the world. I went to seminary. I engaged people of faith from different backgrounds. And I realized two things that left a very bad taste in my mouth. Number one is that you can make the Bible say whatever you want the Bible to say.

4:21 There are easily ways in which you can manipulate scripture, take it out of context, quote it. No matter what position you take on any issue, you can make the Bible support it. You can even make the Bible support some sinful issues. Hey, you got a drinking problem? Paul said drink a little wine for the stomach's sake. Oh, you got a problem with that abstinence thing? Ecclesiastes says one cannot be warm if he sleeps alone, but two together can have heat. You can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. And number two, I've witnessed that the Bible has been weaponized by certain people in the body of faith. What do I mean by that? It's been used as a weapon to harm more than a first aid kit to help heal. People have used the Bible destructively throughout the history of humanity. All you need to do is look at any atrocity that's ever happened in the history of humanity, and I guarantee you somebody used scripture to prove their point.

5:22 Slavery, apartheid, genocide, oppression of people. There's always been some scripture to be used. So because of that, I reached a place in my life, and maybe not you, but I reached a place in my life where simply quoting a scripture does not settle the issue for me. Because you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. I was once asked a question, which disciple do I see myself more as? Yeah, I want you to think about that. We don't get too much of the character of the disciples in the gospel, but I would suggest to you that all of us have a little Judas in us because there are moments when we betray God. If you're like me, you probably got a little Peter in you. Push me the wrong way. I may cut and cuss you and then ask God to forgive me afterwards. But the disciple I realize I have a lot of it is Thomas. You remember Thomas. We don't get too much about him until the end.

6:22 Gospel of John after Jesus has resurrected. You probably know Thomas as doubting Thomas because Jesus is resurrected. He shows himself to the 10 other followers. They go and tell Thomas what they've seen. And Thomas doesn't believe that Jesus has risen from the dead. Thomas doubts the resurrection and he gets the name doubting Thomas that sticks to him because people say he doubted the resurrection of Jesus. I want to suggest that there's another way to look at it. That maybe what Thomas doubted was the word of the other apostles. Hear me. Maybe Thomas says that just because Peter believes it doesn't mean I have to believe it. just because John experienced it doesn't mean that I've experienced it. That what Thomas is to me, Thomas is that disciple who says that I understand what other people believe.

7:16 I understand what other people are saying, but I want to touch his hands and I want to see him from myself. Thomas, beloved, take a step back. Here's what others have said and suggests that I've got to somehow align that with my own experience of God, what I've seen, what I've experienced, what I felt, and that I cannot just believe what someone else believes if it doesn't match my own experience with God. Thomas does something very dangerous in the world in which we live today. He daresay that other people's interpretation has to somehow align with my own experience. And I want to invite you into a space, if you got any Thomas in you, to a safe space to question, to debate, to discuss, to see a difference of opinion, to suggest that I understand what some people believe, but does that align itself with my own experience of God?

8:21 Now, if you're willing to come into this space of can I push it, I want to let you know it's dangerous. My Thomas tendencies have cost me tremendously in certain religious circles. My own home state convention, the Baptist General State Convention of Illinois, has deemed me a heretic because I don't necessarily believe everything I was taught as people read and interpreted the Bible for me. The National Baptist Convention, of which I was born and raised in, has not allowed me to speak or teach because they believe that somehow my positions on certain issues are dangerous to the body of Christ.

9:05 That's why I'm thankful for Alfred Street. That's why I'm thankful for you, that God has put me in a circle where it's safe to say, maybe I don't believe that. Or is that what the Bible really says? This is a space where we're not simply going to throw scripture at an issue. This is a space where we're going to talk about the bigger implications. Because again, you can make the Bible say whatever you want, and the Bible has been weaponized through all of its history. There was one writer who argued the Bible is the most dangerous book in the history of humanity because people use it to suggest this is what God says. Some of you may know Howard Thurman, know the name Howard Thurman. If you don't, you need to Google it, Howard Thurman. Every Christian has to read Jesus and the Disinherited. It ought to be mandatory reading. Howard Thurman. Renita Weems, in her chapter of Cain Hope Felder's book, Stoney the Road, tells the story of Howard Thurman's grandmother. That Howard Thurman used to read the Bible to his grandmother, and whenever he got to Paul, she would tell him to stop.

10:12 She never wanted to hear Paul. When Thurman asked his grandmother why she didn't like hearing Paul, it's because she remembered the slave preacher saying, slaves, obey your master. And she never wanted to hear that passage again because there were people in the history of our nation who used that one scripture to justify the enslavement of millions of African people of African descent. That one scripture had been used in a dangerous and a damaging way. And I'm grateful to God that we have a history within people of color of the Howard Thurman's grandmothers who rejected that interpretation. So what I've seen with the Bible from my own personal experience is a couple of problems. Number one, we're not reading it carefully. People haphazardly quote and say things the Bible doesn't say.

11:08 Let me give you a prime example. Finish this sentence for me. The race is not given to the swift nor the battle to the strong. But now if you said to those who endure to the end, you have a red Bible. That's a song that's nowhere in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to those who endure to the end. What Ecclesiastes 4 does say is the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong. But time and chance happens to everyone. But because we don't read it carefully, we are subject to other people's interpretation and even misquotation of the Bible. Number two, we're very guilty of taking the Bible out of context. Very rarely do those who interpret Bible take the time to share with you what the context was of the original audience to whom it's written. I know you love the Bible. I love the Bible, too. But hear me, no one who wrote scripture wrote it knowing that you would be around to read it in 2020.

12:08 That's hard to digest. Paul didn't write thinking you would read his letters. The gospel writers didn't write knowing you would be alive in 2020 to read. So in order to deal with it with integrity, don't you have to get involved into the context? The third problem of Scripture is that we sometimes fail to appreciate what the Bible is and what the Bible is not. Not only what it is, but understanding what it is not. And the final challenge with studying the Word of God is that there are those who have not allowed space for God to be larger than someone's interpretation of a passage of Scripture. Valerie Bridgman came to our church. I love her to death. And she made a quote, a comment that I want to quote to you. She said, if God is not bigger than your Bible, then your Bible is God.

13:06 When you think about that for a moment, if God is not bigger than your Bible, then your Bible has become your God. And the question we're going to wrestle with, is it possible for God to be bigger than somebody's interpretation of the Bible? Is it possible for God to be bigger than one person's interpretation of the Bible? I want to invite you into that space. So here's what we're going to do in this. Can I push it? Every week, I'm going to raise with you a controversial issue within the body of Christ. where people think and believe differently. We're going to look at the different positions and take some time to look at the history, the theology, the Bible, and the implications of those different positions. We're going to raise an issue.

13:59 We're going to look at how Christians think and see it differently and how and why they've landed in that place. And most importantly, I want us to take some time to discuss the implications of those different positions. When you push it, what happens? If you believe this on a certain issue, what's the danger of it? What's the positive of it? If you believe this on a certain issue, how does this play out in the world? And I hope three things will come as a result of how we study the word of God. Number one is that you'll see an issue. You'll see the different perspectives. And you'll know what's at stake in what you believe. Number two, that maybe you can examine, reexamine and question your own position. Why do I believe what I believe? Why do I stand on this side of issue, this issue? Or how did I come to believe this about this certain topic?

14:55 And the most important thing I hope that will happen is that you will validate the logic of someone who stands in a different position. hear me I want to raise the issue I want you to examine where you stand but I also want you to understand why some people believe differently how did they come to that place and then learn to validate that logic I may not agree with where you stand but I understand how you got there I may not agree with what you believe but I understand how you got there I might not share your same perspective, but I understand how you got there. Too much damage has been done in the body of Christ when there's an issue that's controversial, people run to their different camps, and then they start throwing rocks at people who don't believe like they do. The kingdom has been damaged because we don't make room for the possibility that someone can think differently absolutely the other side of an issue than you do and still be saved so I want to get into this and I want you to know that there's some people who may have difficulty with this kind of Bible study if you demand homogeneity within Christianity this Bible study may not be for you what do I mean by that if you demand and need that there just be one Christian position on any given issue and all Christians have to think the same about a certain issue, then this may not be the Bible study for you.

16:36 You know, it's funny to me how we want all of Christianity to be the same, but our history is one of different opinions. As a matter of fact, let me ask you this question. What does it really take to be a Christian? Where does Christianity start? What's at the core of being a Christian? And I will tell you from my perspective, from Howard John, your position on homosexuality or women in ministry, that has nothing to do with Christianity. Christianity begins with one singular belief that Jesus Christ was the son of God who died on the cross to pay the price for our sins and was resurrected by the power of God to the glory of God on the third day. that's where Christianity really begins. Christianity begins with that belief that Christ died and is risen. Christianity doesn't begin with where you think about gays or what you think about women or what you think about this church or that denomination.

17:33 The common core of Christianity is do you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God who died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected to the glory of God. For me, that's where Christianity begins. And you may be challenged by this, after that, all bets are off because Christianity goes in so many different directions after that common confession. Our history has always been one of starting at the cross and then moving in different directions. The early church had different opinions about Gentile conversions. Peter and Paul couldn't get along to save their lives. The church has always had debates about which books of the Bible should be in. Debates about how Christians should engage the world in government or withstand from it. Debates about which holidays we ought to celebrate.

18:31 How the Lord's Supper ought to be celebrated. Divisions within the body of Christ about whether clergy could get married or not. Divisions about what day we should worship on, Saturday or Sunday. Divisions within Catholicism that led to the Protestant Reformation in the late 16th century. And even right now in contemporary America, 2020, the United Methodist Church, the largest Christian denomination in America, is about to be divided and split down the middle over the issue of same-sex marriage. The body of Christ has always thought differently. And if you demand that there just be one variety of Christianity, this may not be for you. Because we're going to take the time to share the different opinions and perspectives. what I want us to do is take time to ask again, does this interpretation and this implication align itself with my portrait of God that I hold in my head?

19:38 Here's what I want to say. I believe that a lot of Christians have an incomplete or an inconsistent theology about God. It's either incomplete or inconsistent because we've not taken the time to really see all the different opinions and perspectives over any given issue. I want you to know what you believe and why and the implications of it. And sometimes to know what you believe, you've got to know why other people believe differently. When I went to seminary, one of the hardest classes I had in my first year was called Philosophy for Understanding Theology. and our religion professor made us read all the philosophical atheists of the world. And it was so difficult. I remember asking, why am I spending hours reading Nietzsche and Freud and all these philosophers who don't even believe in God? And that's what he said, because you'll never be able to defend God until you understand why someone doesn't believe in God.

20:36 You may never understand why you believe what you believe until you give yourself the opportunity to be exposed to the other side of the issue, the other side of the coin, the other perspective. And we're going to ask ourselves, does this align with my portrait of God? The question is not just what does the Bible say. The question is, what do you believe about God? And how is your reading of scripture aligned or misaligned with your understanding of God? So in any given issue, three things can happen. An interpretation can align itself with your image of God. An interpretation of scripture can be misaligned and make you go, you know what? Maybe I was thinking wrong about God. Or someone's interpretation can contradict what you absolutely believe about God. And it makes you want to go back and reinterpret that passage for yourself.

21:32 This is a lot more than just what does the Bible say. And if you're the type of Christian that I respect it, who simply wants to throw a scripture at an issue and that be the end of it, I respect that. That's just not my walk. That doesn't satisfy the Thomas in me. So if you're not open to adjusting and rethinking your own position while accepting the validity of someone else's, this is going to be tough. I really like what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13. In 1 Corinthians 13, verse 11, Paul says this. When I was a child, I thought as a child, spake as a child, understood as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. What was Paul saying? He's maturing. That some of the things he understood when he first came to the Lord, he changed as he grew and walked with the Lord.

22:27 And my prayer is that you are not at the same place with God today that you were when you first gave your life to the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank God for the possibility of maturing and evolving. Of allowing God to take us through experiences that make us reread Bible and rethink God. You know, it's easy. Black and white. Black and white is easy, right or wrong. what's harder is recognizing that Christianity is not black or white on any issue. It's shades of gray. And I want to invite you into the shades of gray.

23:11 Now, if you are addicted to being right, this probably is not the best venue for you. You know who the hardest people for me to be in a relationship with are? The people who have to be right no matter what the cost. This is not about right or wrong. This is not about debating. This is not about demeaning or damning someone's position. This is about modeling what I think the world needs to see. Healthy conversation in the midst of division and difference that yet honors God. Can you and I think differently and have a peaceful conversation where I honor what you think, I share what I think, and neither one of us puts the other one in hell? The world needs to see an example of Christians who can accept a different opinion and still honor God in the way they live in the world. There are a couple of subjects that we're going to get into.

24:10 Once you get prepared, I've got a homework assignment for you for next week. During this, we're going to talk about what the Bible is, particularly the history of the canonization of the Bible. How did the Bible come to be? Where did those scriptures come from? Who wrote them? How we're all 66 put together. We need to understand how God used human hands to put scripture in our hands. I want to delve into the waters of the LGBTQIA community and its relationship with Christianity. One of the most divisive issues in the body of Christ right now are how Christians view our LGBTQIA brothers and sisters. I want to talk about that. I want to talk about hell. A lot of Christians reject hell, a lot of believe. What is your doctrine of hell and how does that fit your image of God? I'm going to revisit an issue that got me in a lot of hot water. Is Jesus Christ the only way to be saved? Is there salvation outside of Jesus Christ? Somebody I already know, you just quoted John 14, 6. Oh, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and life, and no one comes to the Father but by him.

25:24 Okay, you can quote that one scripture, or we can have a broader discussion about it. I want to look at the role of women in leadership within ministry in the church. I want to have a discussion about Jesus versus Paul. because many people who weaponize the Bible lift up Moses and Paul and quote from Moses and Paul more than they do from Jesus. I want to look at those differences and some other denominational differences. I'm excited about where we're going. Let me share with you what we're going to start next week so you can get your homework assignment and then I'll bid you goodbye. The other day I was sitting at the kitchen counter with my mother, 90 years old, and she leaned over to me and she said, Howard, do you think God is mad at us? I said, Mom, what do you mean by that? She said, do you think the coronavirus is God doing something in the world?

26:21 I was planning to take my children to Japan this year for a father son trip. Clearly we're not doing that, but I put money down on the trip. When I called my travel agent, I was worried about getting the money back. She said, well, don't worry. You purchased travel insurance. I said, but yeah, are they going to give me all my money back? And this was, she said, yes, because the travel insurance agency will see the Corona virus pandemic as an act of God. And because it's an act of God, you'll get your money back. And that made me begin to think, is this an act of God? Which actually leads to a broader question. How do we as Christians, how do we as Christians examine, explore, and understand the reality of evil in our world when we say that we serve an omniscient, a loving, and an omnipotent God?

27:20 Why do bad things happen to good people? Want to start that next week. So here's your homework assignment. You ready? It's three parts. Get your pen and paper. You got to get ready for next week. Number one, I want you to reread Genesis 1, 2, and 3. I know that's a whole lot. Three whole chapters of the Bible. Reread Genesis 1, 2, and 3. And when you read it, I want you to answer a few questions. You ready? Number one.

27:50 Where does the serpent come from? Number two, what does the serpent represent? And number three, what does the tree of the knowledge of good and evil really represent? Genesis 1, 2, 3, where did the serpent come from? What does the serpent represent? And what does the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represent? Number two, I want you to read Job. If you can read the entire book, great. If not, get to chapter 42.

28:27 I want you to read Job 42, and I want you to answer this question. Who is God upset with and why? Okay, you got the Genesis assignment. Job 42, who is God upset with and why? And the final question I want you to ask, doesn't require any Bible, it's just a question. how much of your life do you believe is predestined by God? And how much of your life is the direct result of your own free will choices? I'll say it again. How much of your life is predestined, inevitable, because God said that's going to be? And how much of your life do you believe is the direct result of your own free will? Three assignments, Genesis 1 through 3, answer some questions. Job 42, answer the question.

29:20 And then the last question, how much of your life is predestined by God and how much is a direct result of your own free will? That's where we're gonna start next week. I'm excited to continue pushing it with you. Remember, my job here is not to make you think what I think. My job is to make sure you're thinking. This is Pastor Howard John Wesley. I will see you next week live, right here on Facebook Live, on YouTube Live. and we're going to get into it. We're going to push it. We're going to look at it. We're going to debate it. We're going to discuss it. But more importantly, we're going to grow from it. Love you with the love of Jesus. Catch you all next week.