Breaking Free From the Grip of Money - Louie Giglio and Ron Blue

0:16 I'm going to introduce you to a friend of mine in a couple of minutes. But before that, just want to let you know we're landing this collection we've been in called Astonishing. And if you've been around, it's all about these two guys who were filled with the Holy Spirit, early days of the church, began preaching the gospel of Jesus and the resurrection. And the Jewish religious authorities didn't like that, tried to shut them down. But they just preached all the more because God had healed a lame man. And the testimony of that healing was undeniable. Everybody knew God was moving in power. And Peter and John were proclaiming the God who healed the man and proclaiming Jesus and proclaiming the gospel. And the authorities brought him in and said, hey, we want you to stop preaching about Jesus. And they said, hey, you know, you can think it through. But for us, it's like, we don't obey God or do we obey you guys? And they said, we got to keep talking about what we have seen and heard.

1:09 And then these religious authorities, the temple leaders, the high priest even, they said about Peter and John, when they saw their boldness, they were astonished. That's where the series comes from. When they saw the way they were preaching, they were astonished. When they saw the way that they were proclaiming Jesus, even under threat, they were astonished. They said, because they knew that these guys were ordinary and unschooled men. The unschooled school and the schooled. And they took note that these guys had been with Jesus. And the hope of this collection isn't that we look at Peter and John and go, man, they were amazing. The hope of this collection is at some point somebody would look at you and go, you're amazing. Why do you act like that? Where did you get that kind of power? Why did you treat them like that? Why do you think like that? Why do you give like that? What's going on with you? And then eventually you can tell them it's Jesus.

2:10 He's changing my life, and he can change your life too. The best way to share the gospel is for somebody to ask you what is going on with your life. It's a lot better than trying to work it into a conversation and say, yeah, I saw the game too. That was pretty amazing. By the way, if you were keeping score in your eternal destiny, how do you think you'd come out at the end of the day? Overtime or what?

2:31 Awkward. But when you're living a life that causes people to ask why, it's the easiest way to say, his name's Jesus, and he's changing my life. The end of this chapter, they get released, Peter and John. They go back to where their friends are, and they have a prayer meeting. And at the end of chapter four, coming down, it says, and when they prayed, the place where they prayed was shaken. That's the kind of prayer you want to be doing right there. Their prayers reached heaven and shook the ground where they were. And that's what we're praying for in these days of above and beyond prayer starting on August 4th, that God will shake this place and that we'll see God move in ways way more than just a season of giving, moving in the lives of people. But that's not the end of Acts 4. The end of Acts 4 begins in verse 32. So I just want you to see again today because today we're talking about astonishing generosity.

3:26 I'm telling you, if there's one thing, Shelley and I wanna be true of our lives, at the end of our story is we want to be astonishingly generous. Why? Because God has been so generous to us. We want to reflect that generosity in everything that we do. And I want us to see today the connection between Holy Spirit-powered gospel, the expansion of the church, and generosity. Acts 4, they've been freed, They prayed. The place was shaken. And then we come down to this last little text. It says, all the believers, verse 32, were in one heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own. Okay, so now we know God is involved. But they shared everything they had.

4:20 With great power, the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. and God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time, those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Well, then they call out this guy, Joseph. Luke is writing this and he's giving us the eyewitness account of what's going on here and he wants to highlight this guy named Joseph. And he says, Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas, which means son of encouragement, sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet. That guy made it into the scripture.

5:18 Joseph made it right into the word of God. We got guys preaching and then put in jail and then threatened, and of course, Peter and John are gonna make it into the scripture. But the last person mentioned in this whole section is Barnabas, and he's mentioned because he's got an extra piece of land. We don't know if it's an investment property. We don't know if he inherited it. We don't know if he'd planned to build something on it. We're not sure of all the details. We just know at some point it dawned on him. We got people in our new burgeoning Christian community who have needs, and I got that piece of land. I'm gonna sell that land. I'm gonna bring it into the house of God. I wanna go above and beyond. I don't have to sell the land. Nobody's making me sell the land. It's gospel, Holy Spirit, movement in my heart that is leading me to sell the land. And I'm gonna bring it in to the house of God. I'm gonna go above and beyond.

6:13 And his astonishing generosity wrote him in to the story of God. Don't you want to be written into what God is doing in Atlanta, Georgia right now, in Passion City Church right now, in D.C. and in Cumberland and Trillith and in the nations right now, among all people? Don't you wanna be written into that story? And I think that all of us can be. God's plan is that we all would be. One of the leading voices in the world in terms of Christian financial planning is with us today. If you look him up online, and it says about him in a lot of places that he is the pioneer of biblical financial wisdom. He's 83 years of age. He's started and sold a bunch of companies. He now is responsible through Blue Trust, one of the companies that he started to manage $65 billion of wealth for 10,500 individuals and families. So the ripples of what he's doing are all over the world.

7:20 And there would be millions and millions of people who have their financial house in order because of what God has done through he and through the organizations that he has been a part of starting. And I call him a friend and I've been so inspired, especially this year, earlier this year, we were at a conference together in Florida called Kingdom Advisors, where, I don't know, three or 4,000 Christian financial planners and advisors were at this conference. And you're thinking, oh, that sounds like a real fun place to be. I can't wait to get in there. I'm telling you, it was electric in this place. The Spirit of God moving in this place. Because I believe the Spirit of God, when things start shifting around finance, the Spirit of God starts moving. And being in a room with 4,000 of these Christian financial planners is so encouraging for me. I've gotten to speak there many times over the last few years. And I love that setting.

8:15 And I'll speak more to Kingdom Advisors in a minute. But this past year, before I spoke, there was an interview with our guest today, and it just rocked me. It just went right through me. I've thought about some of the things that were said multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple times since then. And I'm excited for you to hear them today. Our guest's name is Ron Blue, and I want you to give him a big welcome to Passion City Church. A bigger, bigger welcome. Cumberland, Trillith, everybody online. And could you just say hi to the pioneer of biblical financial wisdom. So glad that you're here today. Thank you. Grateful for you and love you so much. This guy's a legend. And if we talked about all the different companies he started, experience, and you're going to talk about this later.

9:07 You've got Wall Street experience. You've got mission ministry experience. You got Main Street experience. and you've kind of seen it all, but I just think the story that you're sharing about what it means to truly be transformed by the gospel to the degree that you're free from the grip of money is a powerful, powerful story. Take us back to the beginning and tell us a little bit about your early life before you became Ron Blue, the pioneer of biblical financial wisdom. How'd you get started in life? I think I started in a kind of working class home and went to high school and then went to Indiana University, got a master's degree, MBA in 1967, then went to work on, well, I met my wife in 1965 and we got married in 1965.

10:02 By the way, let's just stop there because you're going to talk about her a lot. I want people to know what's going on. This is Judy and Ron right here at Christmas time, apparently. So you're going to reference Judy a lot in the next few minutes. I want everybody to get a good snapshot of Judy. Anyway, you met Judy. I met Judy, and we got married for all the wrong reasons. And we say that now. We know. Neither one of us were saved, and we were all looking for something ourselves. And we got married and moved into a trailer. Oh, yeah. I want to show people that. that's where you moved into when you got married. Yeah. That trailer was 28 feet long, eight feet wide, and six feet tall. You could sit on the pot, do the dishes, and the ironing at the same time. In fact, when Judy did the ironing in the living room and set up the ironing board, I had to go to the back bedroom. In fact, we didn't even have a full bed. It was a reduced twin bed. So anyway, that produced five children.

11:11 Astonishing. I've never said that before. Anyway, we moved to New York. I worked for a big firm on Wall Street and then came back to Indianapolis, started a CPA firm and ran that for seven years. And I was not to say, I grew up in a Christian home and went to a Christian grad school, but totally rejected it all. It was so rigid and legalistic and it was not for me because I was on a success track.

11:58 So we were in New York and decided to start my own firm, went back to Indianapolis, started the firm. And in 1972, which was two years after we started, Judy almost died through a whole series of things and went to the preacher where we went to church when it rained. And the reason for that is if it rained, I couldn't play golf. So we'd go to church. But she went to see the preacher and said, what would have happened to me if I died? And today she would say, I don't remember what he said exactly, but he didn't answer my question. And so she got involved in a neighborhood Bible study and prayed to receive Christ every Friday until somebody said, you don't need to do that but once. Then she asked me what I thought about that, and I threatened her with divorce. So she told you she met Christ, and you told her you weren't sure that was going to work for you.

12:57 Yeah, I said, I've been down that road, and it doesn't work. And I was on a success track, and she's no dummy at all. And so she lived out 1 Peter 3. She never again mentioned it, but she lived out 1 Peter 3, and she was a godly woman, and it became compelling.

13:19 And I looked at her, and I said, you know, I'd like to be like that too. Long story short, we went to a church where I heard the four spiritual laws every Sunday in Sunday school, and a four spiritual laws booklet showed up on my dresser one morning.

13:40 I don't know. She says she didn't put it there, but I've never known her to lie, but I don't know how it got there. So I had it with me on my way to play golf. And I was by myself. I was on the interstate and I read the four spiritual laws. And I said, I, I believe this and I want to accept Christ as my savior, but I don't want to change anything. And the reason I don't want to change anything is because I didn't want it to be a set of rules and regulations. I wanted it to be real. what I was seeing in her life. And so I shot a 36 on the front side.

14:19 Man, if I'd have known this, I'd have become a Christian a long time ago. Saved me a lot of money. Anyway, I didn't tell anybody anything for a couple of weeks, but she noticed the change, and we then got involved in Bible studies and in ministry and so forth. And that led to us deciding five years, three years later, to go full-time into ministry.

14:51 But the thing… And you had a pretty comfortable life at that time, according to what the world says we all should be doing. Yeah, I was 35 years old. I was a millionaire on paper. I was making $150,000 a year. And the ministry offered me $25,000, which would have been a major lifestyle change. And we'd had to move from Indianapolis where all of our family was. and I was reading in Philippians chapter 3 where Paul said I gave up this this this and this or I was all this and I gave that all up and I wrote down on that bible am I willing to give up the million dollars am I willing to give up 150,000 am I willing to give up the house am I willing to give up the country club am I willing to give up friends and the answer was yeah it only made sense to do that. And in fact, that Bible is now hanging on the wall at Blue Trust.

15:57 I kept it all those years. But it was so important because, really, when I made that decision, it was a lifetime decision. So everything hasn't been roses for the last 50 years, for sure. But I always come back to that. God called me. I have no question about he called me into ministry. He didn't call me into comfort. Okay. And Judy got pregnant after we moved to Atlanta here. We didn't know anybody in Atlanta. She had four kids below the age of 11. The fifth was born. It was a hard pregnancy, hard baby to raise. He had a lot of colleague. And I was gone 70% of the time. I was traveling to Africa. I made 10 trips to Africa in 24 months. And you had a mom who was basically a single mom raising five little kids and a husband. When I came home on the weekends from being in Africa, I'd go teach seminars. I was in ministry. And she called me at the office one day and said, how do you get unchristained?

17:08 and I said what do you mean and she said well this is the abundant life I've had all the abundance I can take and so I said we got a problem and I got a problem so we went to a furrows ice cream shop which is pretty close to here uh it was a peach tree in Piedmont and pulled out some napkins went through a decision making process and decided that the best thing we could do according to the process was to go back to Indianapolis and take the CPA firm again. But when we said, what's the worst thing that could happen if we did that? And the worst thing that could happen was with five kids, we had come out of a materialistic lifestyle and the temptation was really strong in that lifestyle. We said we could lose one or more of our kids to materialism. And so we said, we're not going to do that. And that's when I developed a mission statement personally. We said, let's take what I know and put it to work for the kingdom. So I had all this financial background and I said, I'm mission statement.

18:24 I said, I want to help Christians plan and manage their money so they can have more to give away for the funding and the fulfillment of the Great Commission. Wow, so great. And it hasn't changed. How it's worked itself out has been unbelievable. When I look back now over 50 years, just meditating here, just worshiping and thinking, how did I end up here? That's so great. I would have never dreamed of being able to do what I was able to do. So I don't take any credit. God's made sure that he got the credit, and he should have the credit, because you can't explain what happened. So powerful. You know, I'm sure there are a lot of people in this gathering who are of this mindset, but I don't think, Ron, until you just said that, that I've ever heard a parent say in my lifetime, the worst thing that could happen is we could lose one or more of our kids to materialism.

19:25 I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say that phrase before. Well, it was on the forefront of our mind. And I just, my grandson was in the last service. We have 13 grandchildren and five great-grandchildren. And five kids. We had three girls first. And then I became a Christian. And we had two boys. you know that's just factual okay and we also said if we'd had two boys first we'd had two boys they were a little different than the girls but i can say this that all of them have ended up following the Lord. They're obviously fully adults now, and they're all doing very, very well in terms of their spirituality and marriages and so forth. And I give credit to the Lord, of course, and that decision that we made, he honored that.

20:33 Yeah, so powerful. You know, I've heard you say that you're not really preaching poverty. No. But you're definitely trying to get at the heart of the matter. And it's not about, hey, let me help you manage your finances better. Let me help you learn how to contribute more to what the kingdom work of God is in the world. You're really getting at the heart. And you talked about being in Africa and having sort of an interaction there that really brought this to the forefront for you? Well, I was in Africa. I took a group over to Africa early in my career as a financial planner because I felt this way, that people will never out give their vision. Wow.

21:18 And so they need a vision. And so I took some clients to Africa so they could see what was going on in the third world in the kingdom. And we were sitting on a hill looking down at a mud hut, and it was the mud hut of a pastor about four hours out of Nairobi. And I asked him a question. I said, what's the greatest barrier to the spread of the gospel in this part of the world? and I really expected him to say money or transportation or communication or tribalism or something like that but he didn't he said the greatest barrier is materialism well that was a stunner and I said tell me what you mean by that and he said well it's easy he said a man has a mud hut he wants a stone hut if he has a thatch roof he wants a metal roof if he's got one cow, he wants two cows. If you got one acre, he wants two acres. The light bulbs went off and I realized that it's all a matter of the heart. It's not a matter of the money.

22:31 So materialism is not indigenous to America. Materialism is indigenous to the heart. And that means, you know, the passage you read, they had, they did not consider their possessions their own. And if I were going to say, what's the best financial advice, understand that God owns it all. And when you deal with that, it'll change everything and it'll change everything for the better. Incidentally, if God owns it all, you can't lose anything. Wow. Think of it. So the market goes down. So what, God? You lost some money today. So there can't be any fear associated with loss. Yeah, I've heard you talk about it.

23:24 Obviously, you've lived a long life. How many market drops you've seen? How many housing crashes you've seen? How many wars you've seen? How many rumors of wars that you've seen? And at the same time, that didn't impact your view of stewardship and generosity because you understood that God is sovereign over it all and owns it all. Right. and he has said more in the Bible about money than any other topic, and it's never changed. One of the quotes that my wife gave me, if it's new, it's not true. If it's true, it's not new. Wow. That's so great. Well, but that takes you back to, okay, if it says this in the Bible, and the Bible gives us principles, it doesn't give us rules. and that works every place for all time and it's never going to change.

24:17 So once I order my finances according to a biblical framework, I don't have to change it ever. I don't care what happened. I mean, I care, but it doesn't impact me. My finances when the markets change or interest rates change, they're all important, but I'm never going to be able to beat the market if you will, but I can live secure regardless of what happens in the economy. Yeah, the scripture says the name of the Lord is a strong tower, and the righteous run into it, and they're safe. And I just know for me, I'm at that season of life where retirement age thinking, I'm not planning on retiring necessarily, but retirement age thinking is going on. I'm, you know, in the social security zone, you know, and you sometimes can find yourself drifting into the name of the Lord is a strong power, but my retirement is also, you know, a pretty good fortress and my investments are a pretty good fortress, but none of that you can count on, but he is steady and he's sure. Well, and that's true. And, you know, I'm thinking of a person who was a very wealthy advisor with Merrill Lynch.

25:34 And I've always preached, live within your income, give generously, set aside money for emergencies, set long-term goals so that you're saving today for tomorrow, and don't go into debt. And so you remember the 2007-8 crash, and he lost half of his retirement. decreased in value. And he called me and he said, my wife and I sat down and we said, what did we do wrong that we've lost half of our retirement? And so they went through it. Well, we're living within our income. We've got emergency money. We're saving for the kids. We didn't do anything wrong, but the market went down so we can, we can be content that we did everything we could. And that's the beauty of a Christian biblical approach to money and money management is it doesn't change. And so the, you know, I get a kick out of after every newscast, well, the market did this today. And I always want to say, so what? How does that impact me?

26:43 It doesn't impact me what the market did today. Wow. You talked about selling Ron Blue and Co. I know you've sold several companies, but you grow this company, then you sell it, and you got a pretty fat check on the backside. I don't know how much, but I know it wasn't small. And then you talk about getting the check, and things changed real fast when you got the check. Yeah, sure did. I was part of my financial plan.

27:12 And so when we got the check, Judy said, you know, God's the one who built that business. You didn't do that. so why are you keeping the money? I said, you mean you want me to give it away? She said, shouldn't we? It's his. So we wrote the check and gave it all away. And we... we've done that twice and God just continues to bless. You know, you talk about retirement. I don't believe in retirement. I believe in rehirement.

27:54 So I'm in my fifth or sixth or seventh career now. I'm still going. And I, in fact, God's given me good health. And I was sitting on the airplane yesterday flying up or down here, and there was this lady sitting next to me, and I looked over, and I said, she's an old lady sitting next to me. As we got to talking, turned out she was 75.

28:20 I said, I'm eight years older than her. But I felt better than I think she felt. She probably hadn't sold two companies either. But, you know, we're never done until we die. We don't have to make a lot of money, and we don't have to have reputation and so forth. But God's got a purpose for me here. That's why I'm still here. And for me to, you know, look out and say that I can talk to a group like this of people who are interested in what God has to say about it, what a privilege. Wow. I mean, it's a blessing to me that he gives me that opportunity. And I've met so many great people like you. You talk about, thank you, you talk about writing those two checks. And I've heard you say before, it wasn't like some miraculous moment where you're like, oh, yeah, we're writing this giant check.

29:20 But as you wrote it, you were like, oh, my word, what am I writing right now? That's right. And even Ron Blue had that moment. Absolutely. I'm writing a really, really big check right now, but you talk a lot about freedom. And I think that we all would have to admit today that money has power, right? It has a power on everyone in this gathering right now. It wants to have complete control of everyone in this gathering, but it is powerful. And you talk about the only way to break the power of money. And I'm thinking as you were writing those checks, you were breaking some big chains and some big attempts of money to take hold of your life. What did it feel like on the backside a week later, a month later? Obviously, you did it twice, so it must have had a pretty great benefit to you and Judy. Well, it didn't really.

30:14 Afterwards, I felt so grateful. I thought she was right. And it then, it showed to me that what God had called me to, he had blessed. And so to return it all was just returning it all. And that's what you just read about Barnabas. And I mean, I look back at that and people kind of marveled at that. But it wasn't that, in the end, it wasn't that big a deal. Okay. and I've lived a long time since then and God's done just fine in taking care of us. Judy and I went for nothing and we've downsized several times. In fact, one time, you know, when you're raising kids, you got a basement and you got an attic and you got bedrooms and so forth.

31:08 We had five, we had three wedding dresses hanging in our attic, which we really needed. So we downsized and we took everything out of the basement, and everything out of the attic and put it in the garage to have it hauled away. And I looked at that and I thought, gosh, I've lived whatever number, 50, 60 years. And that's what I've accumulated. And it's just a bunch of stuff that's worth nothing. It's all gone to the dump. And it gave me the right perspective that it wasn't about the car I drive or the house I live in. And there is great freedom when, you know, you can have more desire less. and there's better freedom in desiring less. I'm not saying poverty is the lifestyle. We do not live in poverty. We live very comfortably. But we also give, and we give more now that our kids are raised.

32:07 And we know we don't have to save for them. They're doing just fine. So we set a finish line several years ago and we said, that's enough. And anything we get above that is going away. And so we're continuing to increase our giving as God continues to bless. You talk about that a lot of coming together, you and Judy or anyone, and asking the question, how much is enough? And then coming to peace with that, and then that's it. And everything that God would choose to bless us with above that, done. Already decided, that's done. How do you come to that decision? how much is enough? Well, it does depend on stage of life, okay? So how much is enough is greater when you're younger than when you're older, because you're building, you know, you're educating your kids and buying a home and doing some major things. So the how much is enough line is the line that needs to be looked at periodically. Incidentally, I, in building my practice, I required every financial planner to have a financial planner. I have a financial planner.

33:22 And he tells me what I wrote 35 years ago. It's like, well, Ron, I went to the website today, and this is what you said I should tell you. I got to tell you a story, though. I wrote a chapter on cars. And I said, the cheapest car you'll ever drive is the car you presently have. and that's true mathematically it works that way so i wanted to buy a lexus i really liked a lexus so in my book i said if you're going to buy a car new car pay cash and drive it for 10 years so i bought that lexus paid cash and about six years later it was starting to look like it was six years old. So I wanted a new car. So I called my financial planner and I said, Ken, I said, surely what I wrote 20 years ago is no longer applicable.

34:18 so uh i want to buy a new car well he called me back and he said ron the rules haven't changed they're the same so i was driving down the road not too long after that and a van pulled out in front of me and i hit it broadside nobody was hurt but the car was demolished and i said yes oh my gosh the lord gives and the lord takes away blessed be the name of the lord so i called the insurance agent on monday and i said how can i get my new lexus he said ron he said we never told a Lexus, we'll repair it. Great commercial for Lexus. You're giving, you talk a lot about giving in the digital age. And you've told us, you've told the story, I've heard you say it several times about the way you and Judy give at your church on a Sunday. And just some concerns you have about the digital and digitization, digitization, if that's a word, of our giving.

35:30 And as a pastor, I love that you give regularly and you've already got it set up and it's consistent. Thank you for that. But you just speak into that some about the joy of actually thinking about what you're giving as you give it. Right. And I'm not suggesting this as a rule. I believe this, our convictions lead us. So what the convictions. And my conviction was that I was a financial planner, so I was done giving on January 1. Because you knew what your income was going to be. Yeah, I knew what my income was going to be. Took 10 percent, set it up on 52 draws from the bank, and I was done. And we did that for years. And I got to, I heard a sermon by a pastor about how he approached giving, and I thought, this makes a lot of sense. And we have a lot of income that comes in periodically. Maybe it's social security, maybe it's a royalty check or whatever it may be.

36:30 So every Sunday morning, I pull off my Quicken report, which I pulled off on Saturday morning and Friday and also. But on Sunday morning, I have a report that says tithe. So I asked the Quicken, would we have an income? So I write down on a three by five card where the income came from, how much it was, total it up, take 10%, write a check, but I don't sign it. And take it downstairs with my Bible and leave the check and the three by five card. And Judy signs the check. And she's also the one that puts it in the offering plate. And what I found was she all of a sudden had an appreciation of how much we really have been blessed. She doesn't really care that much about money, but we'd write these checks and she'd say, gosh, God has really blessed us, hadn't we? And the answer was, yeah, he really has. So we experienced the blessing, acknowledged the blessing and experience the joy of writing the check. And so we give our tithe that way, and then we give to ministries and missionaries and so forth through the National Christian Foundation on a regular basis. Which you helped start. Yeah. The National Christian Foundation is a way that families and individuals can move mostly big chunks of money through to a lot of great partners around the world, billions of dollars every year. Last year, it was two and a half billion that went through the foundation. But the real joy that we get is our cash giving.

38:17 Talk about that. So everyone knows if I give, I get a tax receipt from Passion City Church or from the XYZ Mission Organization, and I give all those to my tax guy around tax time, and I get a deduction on my income tax. So that's one of the perks of giving to charitable causes, right? And you're like, eh, there's other perks. Yeah. And it kind of began with me. There was a Chick-fil-A on Peachtree Industrial Boulevard that I took my son to have breakfast, one of my sons to have breakfast on Fridays. And there was a Hispanic lady that waited on us and she had just a beautiful, joyful smile all the time. And I was walking, I paid and I was walking out one time and I thought, you know, you tip waiters and waitresses, but you don't tip fast food people. And so I went back in and said, can you take a tip? Do they allow you to take tips?

39:19 And she says, yeah, they do. So I said, okay. And I walked out and I got to the door and I reached in my pocket and I pulled out a $20 bill. And the Lord said, you cheapskate. I love it. Said, you got a lot of twenties in your pocket. So I peeled off five twenties and folded them over and took them and gave them to her. And she was obviously very appreciative. And a week later I was back in there and she came back to thank me again, but she said, I needed a set of tires when you gave me that money. And at that point, I thought, wow, isn't that great? But then she finished the story. She says, but when I got home, my daughter, who's a junior in high school, they had a classmate who had a fire and they lost everything in their apartment. She said, they needed the money more than I did. So she gave the $100 to them and I thought my goodness I gave out of my abundance she gave out of her poverty but she taught me a lot and so I've started and I'm not alone in this others do this too but I started carrying money and I looked for people who were unseen and give them money.

40:46 So like on this flight up here yesterday, when I went into the men's room and came out, it's so classic, the cleaning person was up against the wall, head down, nobody noticed him. And he looked sad to me. And I customarily looked for that person. And so I went over and gave him some money. Well, he just lit up. Now, the beauty of that was that that's the joy of giving. And you can miss that joy sometimes if you, the way that you give. So we've done a lot. I mean, we have supported a single mom, homeless. You're up in the inner city. Terrible situation.

41:38 here in Atlanta for several years now. And that's non-cash giving. We sent her, she had to buy school supplies for her kids. And my wife is cognizant of those things. She says, you need to send some money. Okay. So we sent some money so they could get supplies. But it's not just a 20 here or there. I've heard you say you guys are giving like 30% of your giving is in cash giving. Yeah, about a third of our giving. There's probably cash giving. We'll make sure security is around you when you're going to your car today, by the way. Guy's got a lot of cash on him, guys. No, I gave it all away. I was speaking at Kingdom Advisors, which, by the way, if you're looking for a good Kingdom Advisor, then check out Kingdom Advisors. You can find them really easily.

42:31 Thousands of people are linked in through their network and can find someone that can really walk through all these conversations with you. Or if you are in the Christian financial space and didn't know there was a community of people like you, thousands of you, then check out Kingdom Advisors as well. But when I was there, I asked the people who'd been around you, because you'd been around a couple of days at that point. And I said, what's it been like hanging around Ron? They said, oh, he's just like pulling money out of his pockets, like left and right. And the server comes out of the back kitchen door and there goes Ron, you know, and There's somebody in the elevator pushing a thing of chairs, and there goes Ron to talk to him. And just, you know, money, money. So I asked you that day, and I won't say anything about it here, but I was like, how much money are you carrying around like daily? Because I like this whole idea, and I want to get on board with this. But I love the spirit of that, and I love just the way that it reflects who you are. I want to close out, and I wish we had two days to talk, but you mentioned something really fast.

43:28 It went by real quick. You talked about five biblical principles. And I heard you tell a story where you went to Congress and you were asked, like, what are the big five? Or what would you say to every American about their finances? And say one more time what the five big principles are. Well, really, the first one and the most significant is live within your income. Okay, say that again. When you say that, what do you mean? Do you mean spend less than you make? Yeah. I know it's not a lot. So don't like go out to dinner and spend 70 bucks if you have to put it on your credit card and you can't afford it. Yeah, but if you're going to put it on your credit card, make sure you pay your credit card off at the end of the month. But what I told the congressman, I said, well, live within your income, spend less than you earn. And I said, avoid the use of debt because there's different kinds of debt, but debt always has the first priority call on your money. You pay them first.

44:29 You always pay them first, and they will never forgive it, okay? Except maybe some unusual things. But debt will always mortgage the future. And here's the problem with debt is that when you take on debt, it's cash in, and it feels pretty good. But when you pay it back, you have to pay it back after you've paid your taxes on the income. so I tell people let's say you have zero percent financing and you're buying a car is that a good deal well you you get 30 30 000 on a new car zero percent financing but you have to earn 45 000 and pay the taxes on the 45 000 tithe on the 45 000 to have 30 000 left so that car didn't cost you 30 000 it cost you 45 000 now I don't know that the math works on that but but avoid the use of And that three, and this is critical, all research studies will show it, is build margin or flexibility or liquidity into your finances so that when the emergency occurs, and it will, you won't be struck by it and you'll have the ability to pay for it.

45:43 And then fourthly is to set long-term goals so that you prioritize your spending in the short term to have money in the long term. Because you're only going to have it in the long term if you don't spend it in the short term. And then fifth is give generously. And the senator said to me, he said, well, it seems to me that I'd work at any income level. And I said, you're right, senator, including United States government.

46:13 And you know what? Because they're biblical principles, those five things, they work in businesses, families, governments, cultures. They're not going to change. And those five principles are fundamental to good money management. People would call them common sense, but what they don't realize is it ain't so common anymore as the country song goes. But they're 3,000 years old, those principles. And they're going to work 3,000 years from now. They're not going to change. I love that when you say that for us, and I know what you mean by this, but for us to really have biblical financial mindset in some ways means not having an American financial mindset. Oh, correct. I think we're living in a culture that has proven without question that money is not the source of happiness contentment or joy there are so many billionaires in this world today many of them are on their third and fourth marriage got their two yachts and they've got their airplanes and so forth they ain't happy people and what you're really looking for is contentment. Because now I can, I can mathematically tell you how much is enough for to be financially independent and live out the rest of your life with the income, but there's no feeling associated with that. It's just a number, but I do know when I'm content.

47:51 That's a feeling. And if I'm content, the Bible says, be content with what you have. and if you're not content with what you have, you'll never be content with what you don't have. So it's a choice and Paul said, I learned to be content. So it's a choice that's learned that is life-changing and it should be because it's biblical.