Navigate the Impossible: Word + Spirit in Pastoral Wisdom

0:09 let him ask of God. If any team of pastors, any team of elders, any embattled church, any embattled pastor lacks wisdom, let him ask of God.

0:31 And so, Father, we want to ask now in this session, in one sense, this can be one extended ask for you to give us wisdom. Every pastor in this room is in need of your wisdom, ongoing wisdom. For every step of the way in pastoral ministry, sometimes we feel it in a more dire way, sometimes less. so wherever we are this afternoon father would you meet us now in these moments help us to be wise pastors in jesus name we pray amen Imagine if we gathered a list from just this room. of the present pastoral challenges that you're facing.

1:33 Just a minute in this room right now. These are needs for wisdom. I'm confident that our list would be far too much for any of us to bear. Thank God there are broad enough shoulders for it all in King Jesus. and I'm sure that some of you in this room this afternoon have one particular intractable need for wisdom. It's on your mind, on your heart as you come to this conference.

2:10 Just consider in general the various kinds of needs for wisdom that we have as pastors. there's the easy ones like what to preach on and for how long and what applications to make and how and when to update bylaws constitution that's easy comparatively what songs to put on the lips of the church in worship and there's harder ones like how to handle some emerging disunity in your pastoral team, how to deal with flagging finances at your church, and which staff member you're going to let go first, and what particular men do you invest in as future elders, future leaders at the church?

3:05 Who do you bring on to the council? How strictly do you guard the gate when you have such great needs for more help? how do you help struggling marriages with years of bad patterns and mutual offenses and surprising and deep relational conflicts in the congregation how do you pursue wandering sheep when it's 1 in 99, when it's 5 in 99, when it's 10 in 99. and how do you handle the spectrum of church discipline cases and the marriage troubles and substance abuse and relational conflicts? These are not questions with easy answers in pastoral ministry. There is no simple verse to point to and just say, obey it. There it is. We need wisdom.

4:05 John's session last night was, in a sense, the application or the pursuit of insight in your study with the Bible open. And you imagine that concrete picture at your desk, Bible open. That's last night. This afternoon, imagine the elder table. You're sitting around with your brother pastors or if you're in this room and you're not in ministry yet, you're inspired in ministry, imagine the elder table, the pursuit of collective wisdom in these challenges we face in the life of the local church. It's one thing to know and follow laws and commandments. It's another thing to internalize God's word so that by the prompting of the Holy Spirit, you can discern the way to go when you haven't been given directions about the specific situation.

5:07 And there's so many situations in pastoral ministry. We haven't been given a specific direction on that situation. And we need, by a life shaped by the word and wisdom prompted by the Holy Spirit, to discern what is God's will, what is good and acceptable and perfect in the challenge.

5:38 Part of the nature of wisdom is that it's not like information. Information is static Wisdom's dynamic It changes as life changes There may be one decision you make at point A And three weeks later at point B You make a different decision You navigate differently That's wisdom Hmm. It takes wisdom to know when to bear right, when to veer right, when to turn left, when to hold steady, when to slow down, when to speed up, when to stop for gas, when to stop for repairs.

6:22 I got 15-year-old sons right now, twins, who have their learner's permit. they are presently logging their hours of supervised driving they've already had information it's one thing to sit in the classroom and get the information about driving that's great that's important good information but the movement from the classroom to being a wise skilled able driver of their family's minivan 20 years from now. That's a long path of learning, of developing skill. There's art there and there's science there, which is like wisdom to be learned as you go, when to make the turn, when to slow down, when to speed up.

7:20 wisdom is a skill that we grow in and grow in for a lifetime or you don't and it atrophies you can become more foolish i've seen it you've seen it you know names and i've seen it especially with highly online people who get lost in the hall of mirrors and information and wisdom goes down. There's so many in our day, not just cultural elites, but pastors and scholars who have access to far too much information and seeming intelligence and show alarming gaps in their wisdom. And so I address you this afternoon As a man Part of a pastoral team In need of great wisdom Right now as always, but especially in the last few weeks, and then in an ongoing way.

8:36 These Twin Cities have been in dire straits this last month. This is nothing like I've experienced or we've experienced in our lifetimes. And I take it that every humble pastor in this room joins us in feeling that need for ongoing wisdom. And some in this room, I'm sure, feel it particularly acutely right now. Our great need in this information age is not more information. We got so much of that, far too much of that. Our great need is wisdom. We have far too little wisdom in the information age. Access to information is easier than ever before, cheaper than ever before, and more confusing for us than it's ever been.

9:32 And so wisdom's at this special premium when we're drowning in information. Wisdom includes knowing when and how to stop the ceaseless flow of information that undermines wisdom. Wisdom includes receiving access to some information but choosing your sources very carefully and triaging your level of trust with those sources.

10:00 Wisdom includes keeping your objective callings in life clear and staying committed to them when our age offers endless faraway distractions and fresh curiosities that will lure you away from your objective calling, whether that's father, husband, pastor, flesh and blood friend. Wisdom includes owning your own biases and tendencies and not indulging yourself simply to hear what you want to hear in what you hear.

10:47 And wisdom includes a kind of word plus spirit produced impartiality that many people in our day struggle to find and a calmness of soul that is at present very countercultural. And then here we are on the cusp of the AI era. To be clear, AI is sophisticated information. Even imitation wisdom. It is not true wisdom.

11:23 And if wisdom was already freshly at a premium in our information age, true wisdom will be all the more precious in the days ahead. And if our people can't see it in their pastures, where are they going to find it? So we need it. And in such times, with the elder table in mind, and with your own pastoral challenges in view, let me invite you to open to Proverbs chapter 2, verses 1 to 8. In the history of God's covenant people, it's no accident that God's first covenant people get law first and wisdom.

12:11 First Moses and then Solomon. The first need is clear revelation from God. The covenant people need the crystal clear Ten Commandments. and they need the God-given applications in case law. But you can't treat every scenario in life. The clarity of the commandments is vital, but the instruction from God needs to be internalized, become part of his people, shape them, form them, condition them so deeply that as they encounter daily scenarios, they don't have clear commandments, they can discern God's will in a particular moment. and the book of proverbs doesn't jump straight to the maxims of solomon and other sages we got this long nine chapter framework in theology the heart of a father for his son before you get to chapter 10 to 31 to read these proverbs from solomon and the others That's the challenge with Proverbs.

13:26 It takes wisdom to come to the Proverbs and gain from them that you might grow in wisdom and exercise them with wisdom. You feel like you can't get into this? Because you need wisdom to get into the Proverbs so that you can get more wisdom. so as we come to proverbs chapter 2 and hear these eight verses as pastors sitting around our elder tables pastors who desperately need god's wisdom in the work of shepherding don't simply hear this as individual christians this afternoon hear this as pastors together proverbs chapter 2 verse 1 my son if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding yes if you call out for wisdom and raise your voice for understanding if you seek it like silver and search for it as hidden treasures then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God for the Lord gives wisdom.

14:47 From his mouth come knowledge and understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright. He is a shield to those who walk in integrity guarding the paths of justice and watching over the ways of his saints. All right, let's start with the bottom line. The bottom line is verse six. This is the ground. The Lord gives wisdom. It is such good news for a room of needy pastors. Real wisdom is from God, given from above, not mustered up, but received. It's not wrestled first from life experience, but it is coming from the one who is above. The Lord gives wisdom.

15:39 This is a warning for those of us in this room who would think of ourselves as, I'm kind of high EQ. I have my own sense of, I'm just related to people around me. I sure see a whole lot of folly. and I think I'm higher on the EQ scale. You know, it's harder to measure than IQ and so I think of myself as high EQ. This is a warning from us, for us. It's not coming from us. This is not human EQ we're talking about. Talking about gift from God. But how? How do I get that wisdom from him? How do we, as a pastoral team, get that wisdom? That's our question in a room full of needy pastors. We need wisdom. God gives wisdom. How do we get it?

16:28 That's the rest of the session at this point. How do we get it? What do we do as pastors to get it? before moving on from Proverbs 8, let me note a few things here. Proverbs 2, 1 to 8. First, wisdom begins with God's speaking.

16:53 Did you hear that in verse 1? Receive my words, the Father says. Verse 6, from his mouth. so God has wisdom he is wisdom and he takes initiative to speak that we might have wisdom he utters words of wisdom wisdom comes from him through his words to be received by us how?

17:26 second part of verse 1 treasure up my commandments with you. wisdom from God is not collected like leaves in the backyard. It's collected like gold.

17:49 You treasure up his wisdom. You don't gather it with indifference. You don't gather it with apathy. It's treasured up. It's valued. It's embraced. So for us humans, verse 2, wisdom begins in the ear, and it begins with a certain frame of the heart, an open ear, an inclined heart, ears that are attentive. You see that pairing there? Wisdom's from his mouth, and it comes to our ear. Our ear pairs with his mouth. His giving pairs with our receiving. And now we got this curious if clause in verses one and two. Is that if?

18:37 If you receive my words, treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding. Where's the other foot? Where's the then? We got an if. Where's the then? Got a then coming. Where's it coming? But he doesn't give it to us yet. We don't get it. He takes it up a notch. He escalates it. Back to verse three. Yes. So even more. If you call out for wisdom and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as hidden treasures. so not only is there glad reception and treasuring up of god's wisdom as he gives it but now there's energetic pursuit there's a calling out raising the voice seeking it out searching for it which this is an interesting pairing with chapter one because in chapter one wisdom's calling out Wisdom's raising her voice, crying aloud.

19:51 So the wise don't only hear wisdom calling out. They do, they hear that. Then they call out themselves. Prayer. I need wisdom. Help me. I hear the call and I'm calling out for help. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask. finally then here in proverbs 2 verse 5 the other foot does land all right we got our then and with verse 5 we see that the wisdom in view is spiritual not natural then verse 5 you will understand what street smarts life hacks the fear of the Lord.

20:45 Then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find knowledge of God. And as you know, that phrase, fear of the Lord, is like a motto in the book of Proverbs, appearing more than 20 times. Fear, in Hebrew, ranges from awe to terror, depending on the context, depending on the object of the fear. When God is the object, the fear is more than just respect. It is the fear that is worship. It's the right response of the creature to God, of the servant to the Lord. It's worship. It's full enthrallment of the soul. It is a captivating thrill, fearsome wonder, trembling delight, which is profoundly spiritual. It's not a mere knocking of the knees or bowing of the body.

21:49 It is a captivated soul before God. And that's the beginning of real wisdom. This is supernatural wisdom that we're seeking. so wisdom starts in right relationship to god meaning it's not just spiritual but it's also relational that's where we finish in verses seven and eight in proverbs two he stores up sound wisdom for the upright he is a shield to those who walk in integrity guarding the path of justice and watching over the way of his saints and saints here is not simply holy ones but it's It's loyal ones. It's covenant partners. It's covenant beloved.

22:37 Those who are recipients of Yahweh's covenant to love. And so wisdom here in Proverbs, wisdom is bound up with right relationship with God, ongoing relationship with him. It's not the gift of a package. you take the package, you got it, and you go elsewhere. It happens in the context of relationship, covenant relationship with God. There is no true wisdom apart from relationship with the one who is wisdom himself, and it's fundamentally a relationship of worship. All right, so verse eight then brings us back to our new covenant callings as pastors. Guarding, watching over the sheep in our charge. Our God guards his people, watches over the ways of his loyal ones, and he does so in local churches through pastor elders who are not simply channels of his wisdom, but are those whom he has made wise in themselves in relationship with him.

23:51 So we have an elder qualification about this. You realize that? what would you think the elder qualification is for wisdom? sober-minded. I think this is one of the most underappreciated of the elder qualifications. I remember several times as a young elder sitting around the table and brainstorming names of guys who could be good elders to add to the table, elder-qualified men who would help us meet needs in local church. Some names are mentioned, and everybody rallies to a right. Oh, yes, absolutely, that guy. Put him down on the list. Other names come up, and it's kind of like, oh, yeah, I could see that potentially. Give him a little more time.

24:45 Some names would come up, and you could tell the guys were reaching for words. What do you say? how do I, with grace, say no? And then how do I explain why I'm saying no? I'm reaching for something.

25:07 And I think in many of those cases, it took a while to catch on and learn what was going on, I think in many of those cases, we were reaching for the term sober-minded. not only are pastors in the local church charged with the work of teaching which is central to our work but also vital is exercising oversight the pastor elders must manage or govern their own household well because as a team the elders are charged with caring for God's household, the church. So the pastor elders teach and rule. That is, they lead, they govern. And to do so requires a kind of spiritual acuity that the New Testament calls sober-minded. What does sober-minded mean?

26:09 men who are sober-minded are level-headed they're balanced they are responsive without being reactive they're not impulsive not given to extremes not suckers for speculations or conspiracy theories they're not dragged into into silly controversies they stay grounded in what's most important in what's most enduring. They avoid diversions at the margins, and they give their best energy and focus with joy to the central things, to the gospel of first importance.

26:55 And so when other people are running around with their heads on fire, sober-minded men are those who keep their head in all situations. that's the niv translation of second timothy four five first time i quote the niv in a while keep your head in all situations and like the other elder qualifications sober-minded doesn't fall magically from heaven in a moment. And either you got it or you don't. But it can be caught and it can be conditioned. Christians are not just gifted with sober-mindedness or not, but we grow in it. This is such good news. So Paul prays for our maturation in wisdom, in sober-mindedness in Philippians 1 that John quoted last night.

27:54 It's my prayer that your love may abound more and more with all knowledge and discernment that you may approve what is excellent. And so our question is how? We need wisdom, and our Father gives wisdom. And we know we should be sober-minded and have some measure of wisdom and capacity for it in this work. So how do pastors seek it like silver and search for it as hidden treasures?

28:27 I love the pairing in this conference of word plus spirit. it might be a different thing to do a conference all on word and just on word have a really different feel or to do a conference all on spirit just on spirit but the genius in setting it up like this, or the biblical wisdom in setting it up like this, is how word and spirit go together. So before saying a few specifics here on the framework and search for wisdom, let me just briefly address that word-spirit dynamic as it relates to wisdom. And now, we're overlapping with these other plenaries. So I don't need to say much about word, don't need to say much about spirit because of the other messages we're hearing.

29:22 But first, on word, God gives us a book for our own souls. Thank you, Dune. So good. For our own souls and that we might use it. Do you use the book? that's 2nd Timothy chapter 3 verse 16 all scriptures breathed out by God and profitable useful valuable beneficial for teaching for reproof for correction for training in righteousness that the man of God may be equipped complete for every good work do you use it it's meant to be used Okay. have your Bibles ready at the elder meeting. It was so encouraging to me. A couple weeks ago, we had an emergency pastor's meeting for a crisis we're dealing with.

30:19 And I saw leather-bound Bibles on the table at the elder's meeting like I hadn't seen in a while. and at least what that represented is if we can refer to the book on any of this now this so much of it was great so much we need wisdom there's not a specific verse but if we can refer to the book on anything I got the Bible right here and we're going to it and it also represented for every guy at that table I have been shaped by this book any wisdom, any helpful perspective I bring to this table has been shaped in me by this book over these years. The decisions that we make on this day are owing to five, 10, 15, 20 years of shaping by this book on a day-in, day-out basis.

31:13 Isn't it good news that part of the work that the Holy Spirit does in us is sobering our minds? And in particular, this is work he does over time through the word of God. so God's word isn't just for clarity in the moment when you need wisdom it's for decades of shaping to prepare you for the moments when you'll need wisdom so he gives us a book he also gives us his spirit Brothers, do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit whom you have within you from God?

32:10 Or, Romans 8, you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if in fact the spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness. and if the spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you. He who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit who dwells in you.

32:52 Paul doesn't want us to miss the point in that paragraph. The spirit dwells in you. You have him. Isn't that amazing? That he would say, you have him. God gives us his spirit dwelling in us. And it is his spirit who gives wisdom, not mere age. this is the word of righteous Elihu in Job chapter 32 verses 8 and 9 he says it is the spirit in man the breath of the almighty who makes him understand it is not the old who are wise nor the aged who understand what is right.

33:40 So, young brothers in the room, beware of youthful resignation regarding wisdom. And older brothers in the room, beware of elderly presumption related to wisdom. It is not age that brings wisdom. It's the spirit of God who gives wisdom. the spirit of wisdom Ephesians 1 17 so God gives us a book he gives us his spirit and then word plus spirit as we've heard brings us to prayer Dudenay's talked on prayer I won't say give an extended word here on prayer but it's just utterly vital it's got to be mentioned here word gives rise to prayer God speaks first, then he wants to hear from us, and we respond in prayer.

34:36 We pray in light of his word. And then the Holy Spirit, as we heard, works in us. We pray in the Spirit. He helps us in our weakness. He's prompting us. He's moving us. He brings us to prayer, and he's praying for us. And so we pepper, anchor, saturate our elder life, our meetings in prayer. and as God dispenses wisdom for us in prayer, he's doing so in such a way that keeps us ever dependent. We don't just need wisdom once in a big moment. We need ongoing, day by day, step by step, year by year, disbursements of his wisdom, And so a fundamental aspect of the wisdom he gives is our repeated asking in prayer.

35:35 So he gives us a book. He gives us the spirit. He gives us prayer. And now I want to finish here with some further practical details on how God gives wisdom to pastors through word plus spirit plus prayer in our week in, week out ministries. I've got three. This is not exhaustive, nor does this provide easy answers for every situation, or an answer for any situation necessarily, apart from being a framework in which we seek wisdom and seek to receive it from our Father. So number one, he gives us a team. how precious is the plurality of elders in the pursuit of pastoral wisdom.

36:31 I mean, it really is a remarkable turn of events when Jesus appoints a team to lead local churches. Jesus alone is the lone savior, head, groom of his church. He gets the singular glory of being the lone singular leader and chief shepherd. And under him, even the apostles are plural.

36:58 And every instance we have of local church leadership in the New Testament is plural in its leaders. in the last couple weeks as I've had brothers text me send prayers for a particular crisis we're dealing with and check in on how we're doing I found myself after a while texting this pattern he gave us the book the spirit and a team that has been so deeply comforting in a moment of great need for wisdom. Jesus is the one person who must work alone at the most important moment.

37:45 And the rest of us need a team at the most important moments. We're wiser together. Proverbs 15, 22, without counsel, plans fail, but with many advisors, they succeed. Proverbs 24, 6, by wise guidance you can wage war. And in abundance of counselors, there's victory. when the vast majority of decisions in pastoral life isn't laid out in clear biblical do's and don'ts we desperately need to exercise this collective wisdom taking all the ways that God's remaking all of us on the team not just individually but together we need to supplement each other's judgment and seek to discern God's path for the shared task at hand as sober-minded men who love Jesus and love the particular flock he's entrusted to us. So he gives us a team.

38:49 Second, he gives us time. this is so important in the age of accelerations in which we're living we are constantly pressured to hurry be more efficient we're bombarded by inputs and requests and brothers if we don't have some countercultural moxie and some willingness to leave some things undone we're going to be hurried. We're going to have frenzied ministries.

39:23 Now, there are some hurry demanding crises, like a trip to the emergency room. There are times when you got to hurry. But we do well to be aware that much in modern life creates an artificial sense of hurry.

39:46 And as elders, we gotta be above this. We gotta help each other with this. Our people might feel this. We need to help them, not give in to their sense of timing when it's artificial. Satan would love for the tenor of your ministry to be hurried and frenzied when there's no real need to hurry. it is mostly a modern mirage for pastor elders time is our friend it's not the enemy if we're on god's side time is on our side And especially for pastors, there is here the importance of this virtue, this fruit of the Spirit called patience.

40:37 One of my friends here in the Twin Cities, Pastor Dan Miller, wrote an article a few years ago on the pastor's superpower of patience. meaning the pastors in a local church should be some of the most patient men in the church like a patient father with his children pastors should be ready to play the sanctified long game like Mark talked about outlasting, being ready to outlast patience would serve our pursuit of wisdom and pastoral ministry part of the patient use of time is doing the extra work to persuade our people and not presume on them we seek to win them to new directions in the life of the church we inform them ahead of time before asking for votes. We want to persuade them in low-pressure situations. Use our words. Don't presume on their submission to the leaders. Win them from the heart. This is the best dynamic in local church, when the pastors want to win the people from the heart. They don't presume on them.

41:57 They want to win them. And the people want to be won by the pastors. They're saying, Pastor, convince me. Persuade me. Give me words. Oh, those are good words. Thank you. I'm persuaded. That's a healthy dynamic in a local church. Not pastoral presumption. Which leads to another aspect of time and patience being on our side in pastoral ministry. We call this having a sense of sequence.

42:28 Having a sense of sequence. one way to get this is bringing order into the chaos of church life one careful step at a time There are times where able oversight in a local church requires more than just a single moment or meeting or action or conversation, but multi-step process that requires a lot of pastoral attention. I think about this with a tangled up necklace that my daughter has brought me on occasions. with my eight-year-old daughter. She brought me a necklace all tangled up. Daddy, would you help? What I need to do with the necklace is I need to see a first step to take here.

43:22 If I just jump in and start pulling at this thing, I'm a dad, I'm a pastor, I got energy, let's go. I got strength, come on, pull it. It's gonna make this not worse. I need to go in, carefully evaluate what to see, what to do next. We do this with the ice skates at our house. The strings on the ice skates. Out in the 10 degree, digging into that with my finger, trying to get these ice skates undone. My boys' baseball gloves.

43:53 Imagine a piece of rope, and it's knotted up. What our people are doing to us all the time. They're handing us a piece of knotted rope. Pastor, would you help me untangle this? Help me untangle this knotted rope. And what patient pastors need to do in that moment is have a sense of sequence. The way I'm going to untangle this knotted up rope, this chaos, is one careful step at a time. It's not going to do if I just look at it and never get pulling on it. If I just have a strategy and never do anything, it's not going to change. and if I dive in and just start pulling, this thing's probably going to get worse. What I need to do is carefully evaluate, see where the knot is, see where the first piece can get pulled out of the knot. Then you see a second, then maybe a third, a fourth. Then finally you can see down into the nub. You can't see that at first. You can't see the bottom of the knot at first. You got to pull some pieces out one at a time before getting down to the nub. There is a sense of sequence here, doing one at a time. And there are many pastoral issues that's one step, one conversation, comes up at the elder meeting, on the agenda one time, and is taken care of.

45:20 And there are so many that need sequences of weeks, of months, that the job at the table of the men in their collective wisdom that evening is to find the next clear, wise, faithful step. It's not gonna lance the boil all at once. We're not gonna bull rush this thing and make it worse. Take one step and we'll gather more data. How do they respond to the step? What's the new information? When we gather again, having taken one step, now we're at a different point. There's a different need for wisdom when we gather again in two weeks, and we try to pull at the next piece of the knot. Kenny Stokes wrote a letter to our pastors recently. It was a deep encouragement.

46:17 It was so helpful. And one of the things he said that he was praying for us is, wisdom for every step. That's so good. That's what I want. Kenny sees that wisdom isn't something that just happens in a moment. You fix everything in a moment. You need wisdom for every step. And it takes faithfulness to say, what's the step we need right now? Let's deal with this step. Tomorrow we'll have sufficient troubles of its own. Handle the one step on our agenda for tonight. So he gives us a team. He gives us time. The virtue of patience and the sequence, that sense of sequence. And then third, he gives us ears.

47:04 Ears. we've already seen that ears are a vital organ in wisdom. Proverbs 2, verse 2, make your ear attentive to wisdom. Next time you read through Proverbs, see how many times you can spot ear, hearing, listening, give attention. My count is 45. Proverbs is just full of mentions of the ears and of hearing. Proverbs 1, verse 5, let the wise hear and increase in wisdom.

47:53 You won't increase in wisdom without hearing. brothers on this point it's important to own our natural and learned proclivities as pastors do we pastors are a group of talkers and we hear that at the break right you guys are talkers Most of us are talkers, naturally, or have learned to be talkers. We got stuff to say. Pastors are teachers and pastors are talkers. That's a good thing. We don't want silent pastors, God forbid.

48:34 But for many of us, brothers, words come far too easy. And listening is far too difficult. James 1.19 is for us too. not just our people. let everyone, every pastor, be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.

49:00 So who do the pastors need to hear? Well, obviously, we need to hear from God. We talked about that. We focused on that. We hear from him in his word. We want to be sensitive to his prompting by his indwelling Holy Spirit. That's word plus spirit. We need to hear each other as fellow pastors until we have some kind of overwhelming sense to the contrary. Consider that our brother in good standing has something worth saying when he speaks.

49:33 This is especially important for us pastors. It cuts both ways in this room, I'm sure. I'm sure there's some guys here who have a difficult time listening in elder meetings. And there's other guys in the room who have a difficult time speaking up in elder meetings. For those most inclined to talk. do you ever have any moments in a pastor's meeting where you have something to say, but you enjoy listening to the other guys say it?

50:15 It's one thing to make a contribution to a pastoral meeting, to an elder meeting. There's a joy in that, making a contribution. There is a special joy in having something on your heart. you want to say it, and right before you say it, some other brother says it. And hopefully, the sense of our heart isn't, oh no, now he gets credit for it.

50:40 Hopefully, the sense of my heart is, yes, thank you for the brother. I'm so glad I didn't have to say it. It's so good. That's a gift. And some of us need to speak up. our proclivity is not to say anything I want to make our pastors meetings a safe place for fumbling to articulate some emerging intuition but for many of us, brothers, the words come way too easy. We became preachers because we love to talk. Many of us need to hear far better and learn to enjoy the grace of someone else speaking. God gives speaking graces and hearing graces, and many of us pastors could do better exploring the hearing graces, and also we hear not only our fellow pastors but we hear our people.

51:42 We want to be approachable and you're going to be approachable as you listen well not being stubborn, not being dismissive of concerns of members who are in good standing. Good shepherds don't plug their ears to the sounds of their own sheep. especially brothers if we have largely regenerate flocks with credible professions of faith all the more now listening well to our people is not the same as doing it if your people try to hold that over your head you're not listening to us because you're not doing what we said no no we're pushing back on that find out how to do that we listen well that can inform it but listening does not mean we just do what you said. The difference between listening and doing, and brothers, we wanna listen.

52:37 We wanna listen well, whether our people consider it full listening or not. And there is a place for hearing counsel outside of our situation. Listening to a wise, godly brother who doesn't just offend you and doesn't just oppose you, but who speaks with words of wisdom, both encouragement and challenge that make you better and a better team member and a better leader in your church. Last thing here related to the ears. a compliment to listening well is asking good questions.

53:24 This is where we get the correspondence at the elder table of what John was talking about last night in the study. The importance of questions in the study, the importance of good questions in seeking wisdom in pastoral ministry. Just recently, I was freshly amazed. Something I hadn't noticed before. Acts chapter nine, Paul on the Damascus Road.

53:54 If you got a red letter Bible, you know these words are gonna come up in red. I was so amazed in that context. If there's any time where someone would just speak with an assertion, let me tell you how it is, Paul. let me declare to you the truth. Isn't it amazing that Jesus asks him a question? This is just like his father. This is divine identity Christology, for those who know the term. Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Who is the quintessential question asker in the Bible?

54:48 There's a voice who comes to Adam in Genesis 3. Where are you? Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree that I commanded you not to eat from? What is it that you have done? Cain. where is your brother Abel Jacob what is your name Moses what's in your hand to a prophet in a cave what are you doing here Elijah to Job out of the whirlwind where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth to Isaiah whom shall I send To Jonah, do you do well to be angry? To Ezekiel, son of man, can these bones live?

55:49 And then there's Jesus. There is wisdom himself on the shores of Galilee, on the streets of Jerusalem, who says, which one of you, by worrying, can add a single hour to his life?

56:11 What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? What do you want for me to do for you? Who do you say that I am? Why are you troubled? Do you betray the Son of Man with a kiss? How often Jesus asks piercing questions. I saw one source from the Navigators said, he asks 300 questions in the Gospels, and he receives 180 questions. Jesus is the quintessential question asker, and they are not bad questions.

57:07 They are wise, perceptive, informed, heart-exposing questions. So brothers, let's be more like Jesus in asking good questions, in listening well, and in so doing, you are gaining priceless context for exercising wisdom in the pastoral challenges at hand. One of the reasons you feel so stuck might be that you don't know enough yet about the situation because you haven't asked good questions. so our God gives wisdom. He gives us the book. He gives us the spirit. He gives us prayer. He gives our pastors a team and time and ears, and then one last gift that should not be implicit, but explicit, is he gives us communion with wisdom himself.

58:06 He gives us his son. wisdom is personified in Proverbs 8 as a literary device, but wisdom is incarnate in Jesus. Fully God and fully man, one spectacular person that through his word and by his spirit, we might know and commune with. The great commentary on Proverbs 2 is Colossians 2.3.

58:40 In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge. All the treasures, all of them. What does that mean? hidden in Colossians 2.3, hidden doesn't mean here that it was once hidden and now revealed, like it does chapter 1, verse 26, the mystery was hidden, now revealed. Hidden in Colossians 2.3 means stored up, deposited, gathered, kept safe. Jesus is the bank of wisdom. He is wisdom embodied, wisdom incarnate. He is the ultimate storehouse of wisdom, which means the simplest, most earthly, foolish person who has Jesus has, in God's eyes, the wisdom that no intellectually or emotionally savvy unbeliever has.

59:48 The most important single kernel of wisdom in the world is Jesus, and he's not just a kernel, because Paul said, all wisdom and knowledge are hidden in him. If you seek true wisdom, there is nothing you can seek or search out or do that will help you become more truly wise than knowing and enjoying Jesus.

1:00:20 And all seeming wisdom apart from him will be shown in the end to have been sophisticated folly. Never has the world witnessed a mind more sober, thought more lucid, assessment more balanced, questions more penetrating, and a head more level than Jesus. Solomon was known far and wide for his wisdom, but when Jesus is on the scene, something greater than Solomon has come. Amen. And brothers, we aren't that. not in ourselves. But don't you want to be more like that?

1:01:08 It is such good news that this is the work the Holy Spirit does. We all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. And so again, we say, wisdom's relational. It's like the daily flow of life to branches in a vine. It's like the worshiper whose heart soars with fearsome delight before his Lord. So do you know the fear of the Lord Jesus in your communion with him? Do you fear Jesus with fearsome wonder and with delightful fear? That fear of Jesus, that fear that is a worship, the fear of awesome wonder, of trembling delight, Brothers, that is the very heart and the very start of wisdom that comes from God in the ongoing gifts of wisdom for ministry.

1:02:08 We said earlier that wisdom is profoundly relational and God-centered. And now we say, for the Christian, wisdom is profoundly relational and Christ-centered. So brothers, we need wisdom. for the impossible challenges of pastoral ministry. But you don't need another book. God has spoken and given you the library of 66 books. Know it. Enjoy it. Meditate on it. Steep in it. Internalize it. Be shaped by it. You don't need another helper. You have the Holy Spirit. you have in you dwelling in you the very spirit of Jesus of God himself prompting you empowering you for each step of faith you don't need another posture than prayer ongoing dependence you don't need to do this on your own he gives us brothers he gives us a team with which to seek wisdom step by step you don't need to do all the talking you don't need to have all the answers. Oh, the wisdom of asking questions like Jesus. And you don't need another storehouse or another treasure. Brothers, yes, the pursuit of wisdom, Christian wisdom, divine wisdom to shepherd our people in an age of information inundation and artificial intelligence and seemingly intractable life issues is daunting.

1:03:50 But brothers, we have the book, spirit, prayer, team, time on our side, ears. And best of all, we have the one who is wisdom himself incarnate. Let's pray. so father we lack we lack wisdom and father you give you give generously so father would you give us wisdom in our shepherding give us wisdom in walking one step after another give us faith to be daily shaped by your word and to have wisdom flow by your spirit from the shaping of years by your word and receiving special gifts of wisdom by your word in the context of team and with patience.

1:04:52 Father, we need your leading and your guiding. This work is too much for us. And so would you grant us your wisdom in shepherding. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.