Being Present in 2024

0:03 Hey, hey. Okay, we are going to start today's episode off with a quiz. For who? For you. Okay, yes. But it's like a self-assessment quiz. It's not a knowledge quiz. But you are in a bucket ad today, so I really- And a long jacket. We did just have a morning meeting, and so it started out cold, and then it heated up. Yeah. But I'm still cold today. Really? I got so hot that I had to switch to a t-shirt. Yeah, strange. Well, I am intermittent fasting, and I don't want to brag. Oh my gosh. If anybody else is a spouse of an intermittent faster, can I just get somebody to commiserate with me? We used to have the most amazing breakfast together before you started this intermittent fasting. Oh, you sure like how I look without my clothes on, I can tell you that much. I liked how you looked without your clothes on when you weren't intermittent fasting. That's not true.

0:54 And we got to have breakfast together. You shamed me. Oh my gosh, I only shamed you one time. And it wasn't even shame. You're like, hey, babe, did the old pat in the belly, you know, kind of never recovered. That was some 17 years ago, church. This topic. Church. What are we talking about? The topic of your body and exercising and all that comes up so often in this podcast. I do want to say it doesn't really come up that often in our regular life. That is true. That is true. Like I'm very. Maybe we just use it for sensationalism. Maybe it's just sensationalism. But today you're in a bucket hat. So here's a quiz for you. On a scale of one to 10, this is a self-assessment quiz. For any other women my age out there, when we were growing up, we had 17 magazine. And in 17 magazine, right? I don't know if it exists anymore. Grace is for sure never purchased one. Yeah. That's our daughter. Thanks.

1:45 Yeah. There was self-assessment quizzes. You take the quiz and find out what kind of whatever, whatever. My sister ran me through a few 17 magazine self-assessments. I have no doubt that your sister got you to take lots of those quizzes. so here's your self assessment it's a super easy scale of 1 to 10 how would you say you are doing in the area of being present 12

2:13 yeah you need to write the second 12 yeah 12 and a half let's go let's go general in life how are you doing in life um let's give it the past month by nature i am a deeply present person by technology and uh my life is a lot of text messages a lot during the day that can be kind of challenging. I did notice one of our sons did make a joke the other day. I just wish my dad was present. And I kind of looked at him and he's like, oh, I'm just kidding. I mean, they do like to give us a hard time. But so, okay, so what's your real number? You can't move on from this portion until you finish the self-assessment. I mean, it's kind of low right now for me. Before we turned on this camera, I mean, I was, I was diligently trying to get back to groups of people on my phone.

3:09 You were on your phone texting and like, Hey, can you check, can you say something in the mic? And you go, I don't even remember doing that to be honest. Couldn't even get the words out. That was fun. Yeah. I have no recollection of that moment, uh, except that you told me about it. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I get pretty engrossed in, in obviously what people are facing and going through and that sort of thing. So, you know, my dad used to say it kind of comes in waves, people's challenges and crises. And there's been a lot of crises around in some of our friends' lives. So I felt a bit preoccupied in that regard. So probably six and a half, seven, which is pretty disappointing. But we had a great date night, movie night, snack night. We did. We left our phones in the other room. Went to the – walked to the supermarket to get snacks. I picked out one snack. You picked out 17 snacks.

4:02 Oh, 12. Who's counting? They were great. I did eat on your snacks. They are. They were really good. I would give you about a six and a half, seven too. Would you? It's very. Thanks. I always appreciate your self-awareness. Maybe we should do a whole conversation on self-awareness because, boy, that's important. But your self-awareness is very positive. Thank you. I, interestingly, I would say that normally being present is a strength of mine, but I would, I feel like I'd be, I gave you a six and a half, seven. I'd give myself a seven, seven and a half. Always in the lead. Doing marginally. Did you catch that? Podcasters all over the world. Doing marginally better than you. Who says podcasters? But I do think presence for me. Yeah. And I want to define it in a second. But for me, that is definitely a goal in life that I always want to be a 10 out of 10 in. Yeah.

4:54 Yeah, it really is. And because being present is, the problem is not that whatever you're doing, you're doing with all your heart. It's that you are somewhere and yet you are not there. And that's a bummer. Yeah, which is, as we're talking about defining presence, let's get into it. When we say, how present are you? When I asked you that question, what came to your mind? What thought process did you go to? Because hopefully listeners are now thinking, okay, well, what would I give myself? But what would some handles be around, hey, this is what presence is. This is what it means. This is what it doesn't mean. I mean, simply put, I think it's just being fully where you are and engaging where you are. That's what being fully where you are means, like that you're giving your attention. You're giving your affection.

5:47 You're giving your passion. And you're contributing to the moment. And I think the reason I'm giving myself a 6.5 is I am recently more than normal. I am somewhere, but I am not there. Yeah, I think it's being where you are. But this is the one that gets me. To me, being present also means being when you are. if I could expand it to mean that way. And I know we're playing on words, but. Yeah, what do you mean? It means I'm not being in the past and I'm not being in the future. Because I could be, and this is where I think, I think you are so good at the right now. I love this so much about you. You do not live in worry and anxiety over the future and you do not live in regret over the past. So you were great at that.

6:43 I think that's what I need to work on. I feel like for me, when I'm somewhere, I'm not distracted by my phone. When we're in a conversation, when we're in a meal, I hardly ever pick up my phone. It's just, it's more personality than anything. But so often I think for me and my emotional disposition, I can be living in trying to plan things for the future. Trying to like plan, oh shoot, okay, who's doing school pickup? And what are we doing? And what about this? And oh wait, did I get this done? And oh, what are we doing for dinner tonight? And I can end up living too much in the future. or live too much in the past, either in regret or in nostalgia of, oh man, the past was, those were the good old days, you know? And so I think you and I both have strengths and weaknesses in this area that are complementary, but that I think can really help each other out and hopefully help people out who are part of this conversation. Because to me, presence is both.

7:36 It's being where you are, but it's also being when you are. Does that make sense when I say it's the where and the when? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think hopefully the where includes the when, you know, but I think delineate it and distinguishing it is really, really important. I think lately I have, you know, escapism comes to mind because I think it's a big part of not wanting to sit where you are, when you are, where you are, all that. and I think I use a lot of, nostalgia is one thing and I have a time and place for nostalgia, of course, but there was an old NBA game with the Seattle Supersonics recently on NBA TV and I wanted to watch the old Sonics play because they don't exist right now. Talk about living in the past. Yeah, yeah, really, long, long past. But I tend to use the future as escapism in thinking that for whatever reason, And I see the future as like it'll be so restful and peaceful and enjoyable and relaxing.

8:36 And we'll just play golf and have barbecues and laugh. And all our sports teams will be on TV. And the sun will be shining. And all our friends will be over. And nobody will have any drama. And every child will be perfectly in the right place. That makes me sad because I'm like, oh, yeah, that is how I kind of think. But that's how I escape. And I find myself doing that a lot, at least recently. and it is interesting isn't it because it's a little bit of a detachment um from reality and ultimately if you do that too much too often um it can really start to affect uh quality of life yeah so let me ask you a question one that there's absolutely no way for you or i to know maybe i'm sure sociologists have attempted to study this at some point but let's just let's just speculate here. And hey, for the record, this is pure speculation. Do you think we are living in an era where it is harder to be present now than it would have been to be 50 years ago or 100 years ago for people who lived in a different era? What do you think? Well, I think the only reason that the answer is emphatically yes is because we have more windows and exposure and opportunity to watch an old Sonics game from 1998.

9:53 There were whole eras where that wasn't accessible. I mean, last night, you and I got into a two-hour wormhole on YouTube just watching funny news telecasts and Martha Stewart put on makeup. It was hilarious. Can I just pause on that? My favorite was you sitting with me. Because I'll watch makeup videos with Grace sometimes, which is, I'm sure, why it came up on our YouTube, that you literally sat with me and for 10 minutes watched Martha Stewart put her everyday makeup on. No, I was into it. I liked it. We were very present in that moment. Yeah, we were. It was very sweet. Speaking of. Yeah. But those portals now by way of technology allow us to immerse ourselves in yesteryears or immerse ourselves in tomorrow. You literally can be engaged and consumed and enamored via high quality technology. That's funny. One of the things that I didn't end up watching the whole Sonics versus Phoenix Suns, like Western Conference, Game 7, Finals from I forget what year it was, because the resolution quality is so poor that I was just like, all right, I don't think I can watch this anymore because I was missing the high def.

11:00 That blows my mind that we watched all those games and never thought twice about the quality. Never thought the colors were brilliant and amazing. Yeah, we were there. But man, we know now. So, I mean, I don't even know if this is up for debate. I think we, because of technology and advancements in cables and satellite and the transfer and transmission of information, there's no question in my mind, there's never been a more challenging moment in human history to actually push all that away and be present at a, this is our dinner table with our family, to be present with your wife on a date night. Pastoring is a little microcosm, but every vertical and category and ether has been affected. Pastoring now is everywhere I go all the time via my phone. And your phone.

11:54 Okay, glad you said that. Because that is such a reality. Not just for you. I mean, it is unique. You and I actually work very differently, which we have finally figured out that we can work differently and one is not right and one is not wrong. It's just that we're different. I work on my computer, and when I put my computer away, that means I am attempting to be done working. You work on your phone, which is great, but it means that essentially your office is with you all the time. Yeah, that's true.

12:23 What do you think about that? I think – In other words, not only is she a seven and a half at being present, and I'm a six and a half, but you also have a better approach at work because you have a laptop. I do need a little. Never had a laptop. Maybe I should get one. I think that would be cute, but I don't think you'd ever use it. Or the new goggles. The goggles. It's amazing. Yeah. Like, that's what I need. You're going to have the goggles on. You're going to be typing. Just like praying for people. The goggles.

12:53 But as a family, we have had such great conversations about that. Yeah. And I've loved the honesty that you've had. I'm like, hey, kids, I know sometimes I'll be on my phone. I have to step out and take a call. but you've never missed a kid's sporting event. There are things that you can be. Well, I've missed some of them, but not very many. We've missed a couple together. Oh yeah, a couple. But there's things that you can be at because you can bring your office with you. Yeah, there's advantages for sure. And trying to be honest with the pros and cons about it and not just bemoaning the negative things about it or letting our kids get an attitude of, oh, dad's always on his phone, but helping them see, no, there's things that we can be grateful for because dad's office goes with him in his phone. I mean, you've done a great job at that for sure. But nonetheless, it is interesting too, because I think this conversation can land a multiplicity of ways for listeners and people watching, listening, et cetera. But there does come a point where in your profession, if you really love it, particularly if you are kind of your own boss or your own leader or manager, director, entrepreneur, there's just so many times I can quantify and qualify why it's so imperative. And the urgency often in which people reach out to me is oftentimes overwhelming and very, very persuasive. And like, man, I really need to help this person really quick. And of course, the challenge for me is you help a bunch of people really quick and it's not quick at all. And no matter what your job is, it seems like the cultural expectation right now is that you're always available to answer an email, to answer text to that. It's like, if your boss sends an email, it doesn't matter if it's 930 and, which is really interesting on an organization. I got a text last night from a friend and three minutes after sending the text, the text came back. Good talk. Because three minutes went past.

14:47 So that's a lot of kind of where my life is ended up landing because I think people are used to me, particularly me. You've done a much better job of this, but getting back to people. Um, There is no doubt in my mind while we're recording this podcast, when I pick up my phone after recording this, you know, there's just going to be some people going, bro, are you there? Are you there? Are you there? And I don't know if anyone's out there. Lesson Leslie Parrott certainly help us, you know, in terms of counsel and insight. But it is an interesting challenge because work is one thing, but oftentimes where I find myself is landing not in the work category, but like, man, I love helping people. I have a passion for this. I'm not even sure if this is exactly what I get paid for, but I could maybe help this person in their life. So I should probably do that even though it's 11, 24 p.m. Which is, yeah, I mean, hey, Jesus asked us all to love our neighbor and take care of our neighbors.

15:45 It's not just to do with our profession. No, no. It's way past that. There is always that pull. You know what pulls at me to try to take me out of the present? Tell me. Travel vlog videos on YouTube. On my day off, I actually try to be really good at this, at taking a Sabbath and taking one day where it isn't planned. And if I have it, I mean, I will get lost for like two or three hours and just watching people do things. And I think, why is that so appealing to me? Why do I want to watch other people go to beautiful places of the world and watch them eat their food and see their cute outfits and get a tour of their Airbnb? I don't know. I don't know. I like it too. It just wants to take me away from where – I think there's some good things about that, some not good things about that. But you mentioned earlier the desire to escape.

16:41 What do you think that has to deal with? Um, probably pressure and pain, which seem to be like synonyms oftentimes in scripture. But, uh, yeah, I think that the moment can either feel mundane. It can feel overwhelming. It can feel pressure packed or painful. And so we'd like to go to this, uh, kind of this Disney place, um, that is more like a, more like a cartoon in real life. But I do see biblical precedence in the overall biblical narrative. I do think, you know, vacation, which means to vacate, you know, is a thing. And I think that there's even biblical precedence for escaping with God and getting alone with him. I think we see Jesus doing this early in the morning, a long while before daylight, the New Testament tells us. Or we see David say, you know, take me to a rock that is higher than myself.

17:39 Help me to see a new perspective. And he speaks of these vistas that you can go to. And so I think this idea of getting away is a lot like what you do with it. It's not in and of itself wrong, bad, or evil, or sinister. And I appreciate that you just said that because I do think there is a part of that that is universally part of human nature. that has existed far before technology existed, far before globalization, far before we had all of these options to all these places that we could be at the drop of a hat. There is just something in our human nature to think, but I bet it's better over there. I bet it's better when it's like this. I bet it's better after the kids leave. I bet it's better when, fill in the blank. And I do think that has always existed as part of human nature. And I think it can be so easy for us as human beings living in the 21st century because this rate of change in technology, to blame everything on the rate of change in technology, when really some of this just is an aspect of human nature.

18:43 And there's a reason Jesus, I mean, think about how simple the world was when Jesus was literally giving the Sermon on the Mount. There was, people had no electronic devices in their hands. There was no restaurants that they could go to within. I mean, they're just literally on a mountain looking at the stars and looking at the sky and the flowers in the field. And Jesus at that point said, hey, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow we'll take care of. Tomorrow has enough problems. Focus on today. The words of Jesus telling the people he loved, saying, hey, I created you. I know you. Be present today. Be in the moment. What I find so fascinating about that is incredible people who have studied the brain and science have literally found a link to people who worry about tomorrow suffer with anxiety. People who link to yesterday can deal with depression on higher scales because of that obsession with tomorrow or that obsession with yesterday.

19:44 And here we have Jesus who created us and who knew us, who's sitting with the people who we love and said, hey, be present. Be in the moment. Focus on today. Today is all you have. And Jesus, of course, I mean, this is a bit mystery and hopefully it's not too intense, but he was aware. We can at least say he had access to the knowledge of God in the future. And yet, you know, it's pretty clear. But when Jesus weeps over Lazarus in a few verses, he's going to raise him from the dead. But the future does not change the present pain. And I think sometimes as humans, we're like, oh, it's going to work out. Bro, relax. Come on. Just, you know, pick yourself up and move on. It'll work out. And just because it works out doesn't change the fact that right now, you know, there's something to be felt.

20:40 So, you know, so many ways to look at this. Sorry, what you're just describing, I just, I want to jump in and say, I think we do that on the flip side too, that when things are wonderful, when they are beautiful, when they are peaceful, we're like, yeah, but it's not going to last forever. Yep. And we rob ourselves of either pain or joy by not living in the present moment. The other day on Valentine's Day, you and I were on a date, and it was when we knew our son was about to propose to his girlfriend. I think the ring had just come in. So big moment. We're about to go to our other son's basketball game, which he ended up losing with the most horrific refereeing that we will not get into because I will get out of this present moment and get angry all over again. And you and I are sitting on a date, and we thought we were going to have like a 45-minute date before Elliot's basketball game. We literally ended up with a 20-minute Valentine's Day that we had to get. It was so good. Can we order that pizza today?

21:32 It was really far away. I don't think they deliver pizza. Are you sure? We could look into it. Okay, okay. It was good. It was sourdough pizza. Organic sourdough pizza that we had to get to go. True. Man, it sounds so good right now. I think it was because it was Valentine's Day. I just remember to stop. Grace had just got a really good... It was just one of those moments, and I just was like, hey, babe, can we just stop and just celebrate, just be in this moment that there is a lot of good and right and peace in this world? And can we just soak it in for that moment? Truly. Which leads me to the same thought that we are, you know, with our sons, our first child's engagement, which has come, life is going so fast. Engagement for marriage. What's that? Engagement for marriage. Yeah, engagement for marriage was the thought that even arriving to this home when our kids are home, that that is something, first of all, we dreamed of. People dream about it all over the world.

22:35 We are blessed to have children to come home to. But those children will start their own homes with their own children, those grandchildren I can't wait for. But even coming home. Let's live in the present. Come on. Yeah, yeah, exactly. coming home to our kids is something that is uh not going to last forever and that's a that in of itself um is something to be absorbed and really enjoyed but oftentimes you come home and everyone's got something they got an urgent and dad what about my practice and i gotta go to the dentist and i got a cavity and my head hurts and you just get so lost oftentimes in in some of the things to do you forget to be. So what do you think are some of the benefits of cultivating this habit that Jesus talked to us about living today of actually living in the present and being in the present? Like I want to talk about some of the hows and some of the tools and we'll get there, but I think before we- Oh, I thought that's what you're asking because I'm ready to share some housing that I know work so well. But I'm trying to tease it out because I think I want to cultivate and create, even in myself in this conversation, more of a hunger and a desire for that before we even get to the tools and the housing. What do you think, what difference do you notice in you?

23:57 Like I'd say, okay, if you're at a six and a half, seven, let's give you a solid seven. I feel like a lot of your life, you really do live at a 10 in your ability to be present. You're great at that. What is the difference? What do you feel emotionally? What's the benefit? What's the... I think the scripture godliness with contentment is great gain. And that word gain is like this idea of like you're getting ahead in life. And I think so much of our culture is preoccupied with the Joneses, so to speak, that metaphor here in the Western world of getting ahead, more money, more things, more stuff, more properties, more whatever that somehow gets you ahead in life. But I think that was Solomon who said that the way you actually get ahead in life is thinking about God so much that it breeds a level of contentment. That contentment, I think, speaks volumes about being completely present, which is to say satisfied with the moment you're in, fully satisfied with the moment you're in. So I would like to go on record to say one of the reasons you should be motivated and passionate about this topic, it'll make you more sexy.

25:02 It'll make you more still. It'll make you more desirable. It'll make you more appealing to people because you will be a great friend and a great listener and a great confidant and a great comforter, which is what people are desiring and looking for. So, man, if you find a human being these days who is contented, truly contented, and meek, as it were, you are one of the more attractive humans on this planet. I mean, that's – so I guess we should title this episode How to Be Attractive. Oh. Don't you think, though? Would you agree with that? Yeah. I would because there is an ease. and when you carry that ease of presence, other people are attracted to it because I think as humans right now, we are all craving for that. We're all craving that and looking for that and we want that ease.

25:58 You said a word that gave me such an incredible mental picture and that was satisfied. That feeling of you've had a good meal, for me it includes a glass of wine, for you it includes a glass of sparkling water and the meal is done and you're full. you are you're physically satiated and satisfied there's not a there's not a hunger that's driving you anymore it's funny the ease of conversation that like our best date conversations are almost after we've eaten and our best family dinner conversations are after we've eaten there's just that when you're when your physical hunger is satisfied there is a ease and a peace that goes along with it the opposite of that is when you're hungry right you know that feeling when you've waited for too long to eat and hangry kind of annoys me as a word. But when you're just, you're so hungry, you'll eat anything. Yeah. You're so hungry, you'll just, that's when I'm the worst at eating junk food. And I get, you will just keep going and not eat.

26:53 I can't, I get to that place and I just have to eat something. And I'll grab a bag of peanut M&Ms from this airport store. Do you know? And we digress. And we digress. When we were flying home the other day, I bought a bag of candy and I hid it in my purse from you. You did not. I did. I got, you know, those little like chocolate covered like berries. Yeah? Yeah, I got them because I was sitting away from you. With hydrogenated oils? I don't know. They were from the dish delish store. I feel like they're a little bit. What is going on? I feel like they're a little bit healthier. Anyway, I was hungry. And so I was hungry. I ended up, you know, going. You'll settle for just about anything. Yeah, you go towards unhealthy things. And I just think it's impossible to be content when you're hungry. but when you're satisfied, when you're in the moment, when I feel, I see presence as a state where you look around and you say, Hey, what I have is enough and who I am is enough. And I guess it is very similar to contentment, but, um, but they have to go hand in hand, right?

27:58 Yeah. And man, you just, you've made it so provocative. I think this idea of like being present, be in the now. It has become like elevator music a little bit now in culture. It has been so popularized over the course of the last few years. It's become like the thing like, hey man, be present, put your phone down. Someone had saw out a bumper sticker the other day, it said, get your heads out, get your head out of your app. And I'm thinking, I don't. That's pretty funny though. I don't know if that is the problem, but like I, by the way, like our church, like we're building an app to like connect humans to God and each other. But But that's kind of the sentiment now. I'm really going to be laughing at that for some time. Get your head out of your app? Yeah. Oh, I just realized what it's a play on. Got it. I literally just did. Stop. That is a true story. Get your head out of your app. I literally just figured it out. As God is my witness.

28:50 What am I going to lie to you? We're podcasting here. I literally did not realize that's a cliche statement reworded. I honestly did not know that. I was like, that's kind of a rude bumper sticker. And then it's like, oh, it's kind of funny. Yeah. I think you should have been a little bit more present. I know. Yeah. I think I should be more present. Yeah. Good. Anyways, this is provocative to me, this conversation, because it definitely leads me to that place of like, man, who wouldn't want to learn to enjoy right now in this moment? Because it just makes you a significantly more attractive human. Yeah. Just really does. I've been getting a headache since this morning. I don't know what it is. Sorry, guys. Can you use a rub? No, it's okay. One of my favorite things is when the teachings of Jesus and science line up. I feel like the world tries to tell us that science and God are opposed to each other. And I understand the history and all of that.

29:44 And so I understand where that sentiment comes from. I just don't believe that's true because so much of science lines up with Scripture. It's crazy. In fact, Psychology Today did a study on presence. And again, the teachings of Jesus where he said, hey, don't worry about tomorrow. Focus. Be today. That's Jesus' way of saying be president. Listen to this. Be president. I like that. Be president. Be president. Just be in charge of everything. Be president. Gosh, talk about somebody who I, never mind. Let's not. Let's not go there. Let's not do her. Listen to the scientific results of being president. And I want you to comment on all these. First of all, increased happiness. Agree with that? Definitely. Reduce stress. For sure. improved mental health. Absolutely. Allows for deeper connections with oneself and others. No question. And fostering better community connections. Remarkable. That's a pretty solid list. I mean, you've got me convinced. Are we going to start giving tools or are we just going to keep trying to make this appealing? What are we going to do? I think you want to give some tools.

30:54 Well, yeah, because I'm persuaded. I'm convinced. I'm all in. I agree. I think we have underestimated and undone, or we've undercooked, why being present is so important and all the benefits. It yields. It's crazy. I will say this before we get to tools. Okay. Jesus said, he said, hey, I have come, Jesus, I am here to give you life and life more abundantly. In other words, Jesus said, I want you to have the fullest, most fulfilling life possible. But he goes on to say, but there is an enemy of our souls who hates us and who we don't love to give too much credit in the spiritual realm, but he's there. But he has come to kill and steal and destroy. And I wonder if one of the most subtle ways that we can be robbed of relationships, peace, happiness all these things even that science has proven has done it is for us to get caught in this life of not being present so i just feel like before as before we give tools i just want to say for the record that i truly do believe that the gift that one of the gifts that god wants to give us is the gift of being present so here's my first tool i would say you and i are pastors one more metaphor before you give a tool oh okay go for it wow you are already jumping to tools because you were making me you were like are we getting the tools yet are we getting the tools are we getting the tools uh well you just um gave me another metaphor um from this house we have had three bicycles stolen from this house electric bikes electric bikes rad bikes the best bikes yeah a company out of seattle not even a sponsor but um best deal on an electric bike yeah i really really like them we still have two left we had five so because we have five family members but The truth is my kids never want to go on bike rides with us anymore.

32:49 They can drive. We both have one, so we're good. Never mind. Our garage has some cleaner space. Thank you, Thebes. Thank you, robbers. But one of the ways it happened is we left the garage open. Not that we blame ourselves, but we left the garage open, and then unknowingly, until we counted the bikes up, we don't know when it happened, how it happened, didn't have our ring cameras on, they took three bikes. And I think when it comes to. No, the worst thing is like two got taken one time and then another time one got taken. So it wasn't actually even all at once. We left the garage open twice. We didn't learn our lesson totally the first time. I forgot about that. Sorry about that. Just trying to be a present.

33:32 Sorry, I'm living in the past. We, I think oftentimes one of the ways that evil all around us steals from us is I think being inordinately connected to the past or the future. It leaves the proverbial garage door open. And without even knowing it, you are little by little stolen from the beauty, the majesty, the significance, the depth of the moment. Even when the depth of the moment includes pain, all the science and research now tells us that even the pain and the sadness we feel adds to the depth and meaning of the joy and the exhilaration we feel. Absolutely. So I do think that in my own life, you know, that 6.5 is all great and everything. And you're 7.5, which is significantly higher than mine. We get it.

34:25 But it is another way of saying, you know, the garage has gotten left open a few times. And as a result, I've been unknowingly stolen from in the moment, which of course leads us now to how do you close the proverbial garage? How do you not let evil steal and rob from you the beauty and majesty that is the present moment in our everyday life? Yeah. So I think the first thing, obviously, you and I are people of faith. And thank you for that analogy. That actually was really fantastic. Thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that right here and now. Also, I will say this. It's interesting the dynamics between, hey, yeah, we left the garage open and that was our fault. But it still isn't our fault that the bikes got stolen. Yeah. And it's such an interesting shame over some victim's guilt. Is that what they call it? I think so, yeah. Because there are always things we could have done better or different, but it still wasn't.

35:18 Anyway, that's such an unnecessary tangent. I think living in the present, for you and I, it has to start with our perspective of God. Yeah. That we have to see God as the person who has taken care of our past, who holds our past in his hands and who holds the future in his hands. Yeah, we believe that to our core. Yes, and we have to believe it not just with our heads, but to our core. How do we cultivate that, let that grow on the inside of us? And even in seasons of life, when it ebbs and flows, when you and I are both here saying, hey, we haven't been as present recently, we have been in the past. How do we rekindle that and let that be part of our daily reality once again? Yeah, I mean, I want to say this very carefully. and efficiently. I don't want to take too much time, but I think this is where I question vehemently some of the constructs that we have built in the traditional church and the Western church and mainstream evangelicalism, all those terms, if you resonate with those, if not, no big deal. But let me explain. I think we have created so much of the worship of Jesus and the way of Jesus and the person of Jesus, we have turned it into moral attributes that the in-group reveals and attains to and upholds and the moral depraved do not and they're out.

36:34 And I think the way we have gauged and determined and decided what spiritual maturity and maturation is, I think is very alarming. We've turned it into whoever knows the most, whoever dresses a certain way, talks a certain way, smells a certain way, acts a certain way and attends a particular activity on Sunday morning. Definitely not people who leave their shirt unbuttoned so much. Oh my goodness, stop, I'm wearing a jacket.

36:56 You love it and you know it. But I think, yeah, I think spiritual maturity, how is spiritual maturity not one of the big evidences of growing in your trust and adoration of God? How can it not be one of the evidences of growth and development being present? But I find many spiritual leaders and gurus, if you will, so busy doing the work of God that they are unable to enjoy a healthy meal or a deep conversation. And I only say that because I see oftentimes the evidence of my own life, which we've outlined just a bit earlier on this exact podcast, where I am so busy doing the work of God, which somehow should exemplify my maturation of spiritual accolade or whatever. But it is very, very counterproductive and an oxymoron of sorts because here I am doing diligently the work of God but incapable of maybe being present at this table with my children.

38:01 So I say all that to say I think we have to revisit and reshape even what it means to be someone who's growing in their spiritual journey with God. I think so much of it should hinge on not the words, the cuss words we say or don't say, but are we able to practice these sacred practices that lead us to a very present moment with God? And that brings me to some of the words of Jesus that I think are so underestimated and untreated oftentimes in sacred communities like the church. I love that perspective, what you just said. I will summarize. Welcome to our life. No, no. That it's actually a natural result of maturing and growing in our relationship with God. I think so.

38:54 That's what it should be. And I love that because of the hope that that provides. Maturing isn't something that we have to strive for or make happen. You and I have birthed and raised three kids. It's pretty crazy how they just grow and mature naturally. I mean, it takes shaping and parenting. But none of our kids have striven. Strove? Striven? None of our kids strived. Strived. What's the past? Strived? Is that the past? I'm almost positive. Strived. Strived to grow. It just happened naturally. And you're saying that actually as we're walking with Jesus on a day-to-day basis, that is going to be a result. A hallmark. I think so. We can expect, which I love this expectation. I can't expect to be more present when I'm 50 than I was when I'm 45 and when I'm 60 than I am now. But I can have that expectation for my life, not because I'm going to give other tools that we want to be intentional about, but there is a level of when we see God and know God and walk with Him that this can be a beautiful fruit and byproduct of walking with Him.

39:57 The power of proximity. I think one of the most underestimated things about humans growing in someone's home, Whether they're your children, whether they're roommates or friends or loved ones or adopted individuals that you care for, adopted children, is environment. And the power of proximity is real. And when you're in the environment of Jesus and his goodness and his grace and his love, I do think that there is a softening. I do think that there is a enlightening that happens that leads you to deference, empathy, kindness, mercy, long-suffering that I hope ages us. That's why I believe in Better at 7 and getting better and better with age. If wine can do that, how can we not be able to do that? we can. I really believe. Our skin might not get better with age, but our hearts, our souls, our brains, I think through the power and person of Jesus, I think we become more attractive and more inviting and more humble. But you and I have determined when we age, we're going to stay tan.

41:04 We are. It's just one of the things we're going to do. Right. I spent four to five decades of my life protecting my skin so it doesn't wrinkle. self-tanner tonight because we're preparing for a trip. So we are both getting self-tanner done tonight, which is kind of bizarre. Because you said our skin is going to get worse. I'm not going to believe for that. I'm going to believe for the beautiful wrinkle, glowy, tan skin. I think that's beautiful. But you know what I mean. I know what you mean. I love that. It ages. I love that there's a spiritual perspective and also practical perspective. I'm talking about a One of the most significant things that robs me of presence, which there's going to be a positive on the other side of this, is rush and hurry.

41:53 Yeah. Right? When we're in a hurry to get out the door. Like there's no... It's your least favorite moment in life. Oh my gosh, sweet Jesus. Like I actually don't always love scheduling things because I hate the feeling of being rushed to get out the door. I'm always taking my sweet time. yes but you always look great happy as can be happy as can be i i love you for that um i i think hurry and rush can really truly take us away from the present it blows my mind obviously we drive throughout the traffic of la often probably more than we want to admit seattle has plenty of traffic too how when you're going somewhere and say it's a 30 minute drive and you have 45 minutes to get there, how enjoyable a drive can be. Especially when you're going through streets and seeing homes and seeing, oh, I haven't seen this house before. Oh, look at that restaurant. Why haven't you checked that out? No, no, no, no. And a good conversation. And that actually can be enjoyable.

42:51 But you take that exact same drive when it's a 30 minute drive, but we have 25 minutes to get there and you are going in and out of the streets and you're running. And there's no chance of being present in those moments when you're in a hurry and you're in a rush and you feel behind and you're late and you just feel that out that moment out of the presence. Would you agree? Yeah, totally agree. And I wonder if a lot of that is mindset too. That, I mean, some of it is, is the actual hour and the moment, but, but even if you're going to get in a car and you got to be there in 25, but the drive is 45, you're, you're going to be late. You might as well sit back and enjoy. But I also wonder that in other areas of our life, how often do we put a timeline on ourselves? Arbitrary. Arbitrary timelines of, oh, I have to make this much money by the time I'm this age. I have to have this job and this level of promotion and I want to buy a house at a certain time.

43:47 And we put these timelines that I understand goal setting and I'm all for that. But if we aren't careful, those can make us feel like we're in a hurry or we're out of the moment or we're rushing or we're pushing because we have this time we have to be at this place. And then we're not enjoying the beautiful journey to get there. It takes us out of the present. And if journey wasn't not only a significant part of our life, but an equal part to our existence, like it's not a, it's an equal part. It's just as much a part as arrival or taking off the in-between, the journey, which might be what I speak on tomorrow because this ended up at our breakfast conversation this morning, just this in-between. But, you know, God would have made us transportable.

44:44 He could have, by the way. That was an option. Just all of a sudden, wherever we think, we are. But it's, I'm not saying that, you know, 24C is the will of God back in like a middle, 24B in the middle seat, you know, back by the toilet. Where I was yesterday because I gave your mom. Yes, you were. Nice. You are a saint. I love how you got that in. Oh, of course. I'm getting the mileage out of that. But it is to be enjoyed, I guess, is the message from God. Like enjoy the journey. And boy, that is a challenge for all of us to consider. How are we on the journey? I mean, think about ancient times where you literally walked everywhere. I mean, I know some people rode horses, but those were very much a luxury for the elite. you did not have a choice except to get to your destination step by step by step that was how you got that was how you got places except for the the runners who could run but anyway you know there's there's no hurry and i just would love to think about how can we plan our lives to where we can eliminate hurry both both practically both by the hour like hey why don't you leave 15 minutes earlier so you don't have to be rushed so you can enjoy the presence of the drive? What really were you doing in that 15 minutes to make Nick and I'm preaching the choir, you know, but anyway, but also in like, you know what, who says you have to be at a certain milestone at a certain time in your life? Who says that? And can, can we shift that mindset so that we can actually have abundant life in the presence? Okay. I have another practical tool, very practical. You're going to love this one. Well, I, I haven't got to a practical tool yet, Have I?

46:30 No, please share yours. Well, but you got us all thinking about what you're going to share. So why don't you share yours and then I'll share mine from the teachings of Jesus. Okay. Which has changed my life completely. Because mine is very practical. So you want me to go with mine? No, no, no. I'll go with mine. Okay. Then we'll conclude with yours. And then I also have another spiritual one. Okay. The simple characteristic of deep breathing. yeah i'm a big believer in that breath breath which is interesting because it has been almost commandeered by other belief systems uh biblical living as it were whatever that means it's up for a lot of interpretation but uh breathing has become almost a thing that other world religions do which is interesting and i applaud all those word religions for doing it But the whole beginning, the Genesis of it all, in the book of the beginning, Genesis, is God breathed his breath into man, and only then did we become a living being.

47:37 So breath is absolutely essential to the story arc of the Bible. Yeah, I think about a couple things. When Jesus was having his last meal with his disciples, I mean, this had to feel a little bit weird. Think about it. But the Bible says he breathed on them. Like, did you go like, I actually, what was that moment? Like, I would like to think it was like, actually, let's take a breath together. But the Bible says, and this is the disciples who were there recorded it this way that they said, no, he breathed on us and said, now you be filled with, with my spirit. I want what's inside of me to be on the inside of you. So I think of that. I also think in the Bible about how often in the new Testament, it says that as community members, we are supposed to sing to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. making melodies in our heart. I love when you talk about this. And it has been interesting to me to think about the power of breath work and what, again, love it when science and scripture aligns.

48:33 But when we, what it changes in our parasympathetic nervous system, our fight or flight system shuts down, our blood pressure, all the things that happen physically, physiologically in our bodies simply by breathing. But do you know what singing together is? It's breath work. It's like, I mean, I can't, oh, sorry, microphone. I can't make a joyful noise when I sing, but I'm still that little person at church singing my heart out to the karaoke lyrics on the screen. Because it does something not just for our spirit, but physiologically for us as we sing together as a community. And I just believe those are God's gifts to us to continue to help us in the present. We can do it through singing. We can do it through box breathing. So many incredible box breathing. Four in. Hold your breath for four. four out, hold a breath for four, or you say like, Jesus, I love you, breathe out. Jesus, I love you, breathe. Or you have a conversation with God around it. There's so many beautiful ways that we can incorporate this gift that God has given us to be in the present.

49:38 And I don't know if we're going there, but yeah, I think we try to do a proper treatment of this in guided prayers on the app of our community, Church Home, and trying to guide people into that breath work that is not only scientifically, physically proven, research really backs it, but is also throughout the sacred scripture in such a mysterious and mystical and beautiful way. So I do believe, and I think coupled with that is the teaching of Jesus, basically one of his zenith moments in teaching on anxiety and fear and worry, which seems to be at an all-time high. I don't know how you can say that when I'm only familiar with the last 45 years, but it seems like it's an all-time high. He said, you know, are you worried? Are you worked up about tomorrow? Tomorrow will take care of itself.

50:32 In that same passage, Jesus says, consider the flowers. Consider the birds. Yeah. And he goes on to say, you don't hear them grunting or groaning. you don't hear them pleading or begging god please please give me a worm you know but god provides for the flowers he provides for the birds he provides for the animals aren't you of much more value to god and i think when he says consider them he doesn't just mean have a mental like birds worms flowers checklist checklist i think he he means look around and i think that word consider has some beauty and some weight and some consideration and some space in it that says, you know, when you get a chance, for instance, when you're around some friends who are willing to listen to your musings, you know, look out and say, man, that tree is so beautiful.

51:32 Look at that little bird. The other day was on the 17th green. It was a parthery and was with a couple of dear friends of mine. And all of a sudden I saw, I think it's a red belly finch. I'm sure that's not the official name, but my dad would know all the names. And I said, oh my word, oh my word, that's a rare bird. And it really is. It's more of like an orange belly, orange kind of reddish belly, but you rarely see it. And he was not much bigger than a hummingbird, but he was perched up in this tree and he was just kind of flying around, landing, flying around, kind of putting on a little show for us. And my buddy, my brother says to me, he says, you know, have you watched the videos of the birds when they dance? And now, of course, YouTube and technology allows us to know so much more about the animal kingdom. But birds literally are known to kind of do these little moves and stuff. And I think people think, oh, you're really into birds. That's cool. No, I don't know. I am. I am into birds. I am into flowers. But I think it's more spiritual than that. I guess circling back to my little soapbox, it's just interesting to me how in church we've decided to tell people what kind of content they should watch. Don't go to rated R movies, don't cuss, and whatever you do, don't wear a hat in church. Especially not a brown bucket hat. Yeah, yeah. Or on a podcast about God. But But we never underscored that God wanted us to see not only beauty in his creation, such as flowers and birds, but that it would have a quality to it that would still us, quiet us, soothe us, comfort us, that perhaps would give us a bit of a portal into being present.

53:22 when all of a sudden we stopped on that putting green, hopefully using golf also to help us be present. And we are looking at this little, I think it was a finch. I could be wrong. So please email us and let us know. But it had this unique, bright, brilliant belly. And it was kind of dancing on the limb. You know, it's like everything faded in that moment. And you're just looking at this bird with your brothers. And there's a stillness and a calmness that comes over you. And I got that from the teachings of Jesus. And I don't know when and where, how that got lost. Maybe Da Vinci knew that. Maybe the artists of old were aware of this. Maybe that's why they went to great lengths to produce their art in ways that oftentimes we don't in our present modern era. But I crave it. I crave practicing the way of Jesus in real tangible ways. And I just wonder, oftentimes I think, when's the last time I did that?

54:19 Or when's the last time you did that? I would plead with people of faith, people of the way everywhere. Have you incorporated that tool that Jesus so specifically outlines? I mean, even David seemed to tap into it in Psalms 23. He makes me lie down by still waters and green pastures. He restores my soul. That sounds like being present to me. And yeah, I just think all the beauty and the majesty of the teachings and the way of Jesus speaks so much to what we're talking about. And so much of what I hear you saying is the gift of nature. I mean, truly to use it to connect to. It's available. It's available. The last tool I want to give is extremely practical and is a shameless plug. Was I putting you to sleep there?

55:13 You look like suddenly you look tired. No, no, no. I actually just took a moment and I was closing my eyes. Oh, okay. I'm being very honest. And just thought about seeing that bird and connecting to nature and taking those moments and just actually wanting to live this out, not just talk about it, obviously. That's why we do what we do. No, but I really did want to give a shameless plug for the community that we lead. I think one of my favorite things that we do is providing what is a daily guided prayer. and in these daily guided prayers. I know it was so fun hearing Israel and Adrian Houghton talk about it. And we're like, how did you get through a hard time? Like, honestly, guys, we're not trying to be cheesy. But like these guided prayers daily helped us. So I love that. And the thing for me about our daily guided prayers, you know, it's five to seven minutes. And sometimes there'll be some breathing. And they're always based on a verse of scripture and meditation and always thinking about others.

56:09 But, you know, Jesus said when he talked about connecting with them, He said, hey, connect with me daily because we don't have yesterday and we don't have tomorrow. But truly all we have is today. We all know that. That's so cheesy. But it's also so profound. And we really only have today. So if I want to live in today, for me, starting my day, connecting it with God, connecting with a moment of meditation on verse and some breath work and setting distractions aside. but here is what I think is the the secret to this sauce for me secret to this sauce I don't I don't say stuff like that that was so cheesy just being relatable to the culture we get it I really apologize for me here's what makes it life-changing yeah no it's a metaphor it works for me is that I every day whatever the verse of scripture is that we prayed throughout the day today was your kingdom come your will be done I haven't done today's yet but I will it's pretty Again, final edit.

57:07 Thanks. I haven't taken my bath today. That's why. Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah. I love that. You hear me in the bath. Yeah, I hear you in the bath. A little water splashing in the daily guided prayer. It's beautiful. Water splashing. Like I'm just splashing around in the top. So weird. Okay. But today, you know, the verse. Tell us the saucy secret. The saucy secret. The secret of the sauce. Every day is a verse that's typically focused on something around God and who he is. And so today it's your kingdom come, your will be done. when life happens and it tries to take me out of the moment things are frustrating that i can i have that to go back to all throughout the day this is the verse i'm meditating on today hey no god your