Letting Go of Control

0:03 All right, all right, all right. Welcome to another podcast. We are doing a little bit of a different format this week. I do not feel like podcasting today at all. And there is a lot of things in life that seem a bit overwhelming. As we speak, Chelsea's facing some physical challenges. My back went out this morning. I think they call it swimmer's ear. Like I have all this fluid in my left ear. Just bizarre. We are ridiculously blessed and love our life. But just one of those days where I'm feeling some kind of way and Chelsea's much more stable than I am. I'm much fluid. I just get quiet. But yeah, but no, you were way more consistent. I'm emotionally a little more like. Yeah, it's true.

0:54 Crowned. But I want to talk about. Yeah, but you're leading. Yeah. So that's right. That's CC. You derailed me. Oh, so. I am going to lead the conversation today, and I'm excited. And the topic is control. Talk about control. We consider doing the podcast, which we will do soon with our whole family. I think the greatest misnomer in all of parenting is that you can control the outcome with your kids. So if you pan the camera back even further, not just from parenting, but to marriage, to human existence, to the path of life, I think control is probably the biggest farce that we buy into in the world today. I don't know if it comes with getting older, but as you age, and today I was doing some stretching on the floor, and I looked over to my right arm, and I didn't even recognize my arm because the skin on my arm, I was like, man, that skin looks kind of like an older person's skin. And I was like, oh my word, my skin is changing.

2:05 Since I've had the Raptor or whatever, I did like eight away so much of my muscle, especially my arm muscle. How often have I told you I keep feeling my arms? And I'm like, my arms feel like my mom's arms. Your mom's going to listen to this. That is, come on. I love her arms. Mom, you're out there. Mom is a very 73-year-old. Yeah, she's so beautiful. No offense, but I don't want to have 73-year-old arms. You know, if you'd let me lead this podcast, that'd be great. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Here I am trying to lead this episode. If leading a podcast and getting to speak without being interrupted, Well, that'd be a whole different ball game. So anyways, you could tell we are tired, but it's an honest tired. And I think today, in real time as we speak, I think I wrestle with this idea of control. I think there are elements of control, right?

3:07 Outcome. Circumstance. perspective, attitude. A lot of people say, my dad used to say joy is a choice. Yes and no. Attitude determines your altitude and attitude, you've got to choose joy every day. Much of that I subscribe to. But I think in my journey and even my study of scripture in the way of Jesus, there are things that happen to people. There are chemicals in our body. There are challenges we face that are so outside of our control that make it very difficult sometimes to just, quote unquote, choose joy and make the most of every day. And I think where I land on some of that is deep and profound empathy that I feel for the plight and brokenness of humanity. And yet, I think I hope Chels would see me as someone when it comes to our family who is somewhat consistent on a daily basis of going, hey, we're going to be grateful. We're going to be thanking God. Today, I've definitely had my moments going, God, what is going on? And what do you want from me?

4:23 there just seems to be headwind in every category, vertical space and environment in our life. And I'm sure it's all for good reason, but it is challenging. And so then it's funny because your brain goes to, what have I done to create this problem? And the air in that thinking, and I want you to jump in here in a moment, is that then you also, I don't see if I'm leading the conversation. I just talked the whole time. All right. We get it. We get it.

4:58 Welcome to our marriage. But if you're going to take credit for the bad that's happened, then you're going to end up taking credit for the good that happens. So then all of a sudden you're self-deceit because you believe that everything you have, you've earned, deserved, and warranted. The belief system that I believe in, in the way of Jesus, has nothing to do with earning, deserting, or warranting. It certainly rages against what is called the American dream, pulling up your bootstraps. We believe in the providence and sovereignty of God in a way that transcends human responsibility and even free will to that extent. So even today, as we sit here, I'm wrestling with, okay, my back is hurting, swimmer's ear, your body's going through a unique challenge. There seems to be a lot of pressure and a lot of pain for a lot of my friends and loved ones and people that I talk to, people that I don't talk to anymore because they don't want to talk anymore or whatever it might be. And you're like, man, what can I do to change all this? I don't know. Do you think that's even the right question or the right approach? I think that's the human question and the human approach. And even when we see bad things happening to other people, we want to know what did they do wrong?

6:16 What was the error of their way? So that I can avoid that. Yeah. And what I found so fascinating, what came to my mind as you were talking, is the writings of Paul from prison. So when he was in prison, he wrote the books of Ephesians, he wrote the book of Philippians. And on those two books, especially Philippians was when he said, hey, rejoice in the Lord always. And again, I say, rejoice. And so when you talk about joy is a choice, you're like, yeah, no, I wrestle back and forth. I have like two sides of my brain going because the Bible does say that, and I do believe joy is a choice. But I think so often we exchange joy for happiness, and we don't understand the biblical difference. But the other thing about Paul's letters that he wrote while he was in prison is the book of Ephesians. And in Ephesians, he's talking about this great, awesome, victorious Jesus that we have. You know, everything is, you know, he is above all things and he is one of all things and blah, blah, blah, these beautiful poems that he goes off on the incredible power of Jesus whom he serves.

7:20 Yet Paul almost feels like he has to apologize for being in prison in a way of saying, yeah, but that doesn't take away from the power of God. And even as you're talking, I feel like, oh, do we need to apologize and say, no, I just couldn't spend a rough couple weeks for things going bad. doesn't mean the way of Jesus doesn't produce righteousness and peace and joy, because it feels so often that we have to tie, as bank leaders, the outcomes of our message to the outcomes of our life and lifestyle. If we don't have this perfect shiny light, then somehow it invalidates the message of Jesus that we are trying to communicate. Does that make sense at all? Yeah, absolutely. And I think I struggle with that, even texting some of my closest friends when I'm really in pain because I'm like, man, I don't want them to think that I'm hopeless or that I am without peace and joy in a transcendent sense. And yet, in the life and ministry of Jesus, there seems to be, I don't know, validation is the right word, but certainly he adds validity to grief and pain and loneliness and hurt and loss, much of which right now I think I'm feeling a bit of in life.

8:40 I mean, I feel like in how I grew up in church was the way we justified that was we made Paul's prison arrest sound like this really romantic house arrest. That he was sitting in this great house and all his needs were men taken care of. And his friends came and brought him food. It was just this beautiful time where he could just squirrel away and write letters. And so, wow, look at how God works that out. Yeah. Good. But I actually just did a deep dive into what prison actually was. And it was not that. It wasn't a beautiful, easy circumstance situation. And I think for us, these seasons, for me, give us an opportunity to talk about, okay, what does it look like to have joy when circumstances aren't great, when they haven't been ideal? and how can we actually model and demonstrate that and still celebrate the goodness and bigness and love and amazing life that we have in Jesus with maybe circumstances the way we would have loved to have been.

9:52 And to me, that's the kind of control I want instead of trying to control, okay, how can I control these outcomes to get the result of life that I want? I mean, with this random physical condition that I got from one random workout that's so rare um yeah i keep going back to me how can i guarantee i can never get that oh you know but i don't know okay how can i how could i find god in this and yeah and let go of the control and find joy maybe outside of that yeah and maybe that's the the so much to say that the two extremes that i find very natural and durable for me as a natural, normal human being is I want to either be really proud of my pain, like somehow I am in more pain than others because I'm so important and I'm doing such important work for God that this headwind is indication of the significance of what we're doing, which is error.

10:53 Or poor me, who has become a victim to other humans who have done things to me because of XYZ. Yeah, yeah. But like, you're eating my whatever. None of, so many of the things actually haven't even had anything to do with other humans. That's where I'm like talking to God. Like, hey, God, this is on you. You could have done something different here. Yeah. And I was going to finish what I was going to say, but it's very true. But I think it's proud or poor, or the best option that I find every day is going to the person that I believe is responsible ultimately for everything, or at least presides over everything. and the divine mysterious intersection of free will and sovereignty, which only he understands, we don't. I do not believe God causes back pain and sickness and disease, and yet he has allowed free will in this realm and universe and galaxy where some of these things, our body does deteriorate. I am getting gray. My skin is looking different. Yours isn't. Mine is.

12:05 But I think going to God, one of my favorite practices that I've practiced today is he seems to be able to not only handle but invite me to say, man, what is going on? What is it that you want from me right now? What do you want me to? And it's not like in those moments of casting my cares on him and grieving with him and being angry with him or being hurt with him or being frustrated or commiserating with him that I am without understanding that there is no breath without him and I don't exist without him. And yet here I am and here you are. And it's like, what's going on? Like, what do you, I can't, I'm just a guy and I can't handle too much more headwind here, or I just get a little bit despondent. And again, as I say that, my pastoral, theological, philosophical brain goes, but remember to tell everybody on the podcast how blessed you are and how grateful you are.

13:10 I mean, even this den that I'm in and the ark that I've collected and it's, you know, I'm very, very grateful. And we truly are so blessed. But no matter where you are in the world, whatever you're going through, there's always opportunity to kind of either, you know, be proud or poor rather than go to the person. Can I put a wife hat on for a second? Yeah. Because I think for saying that and I feel that tension. I feel that like I can see wrestling through stuff today. And I just I think my natural wrestling, it's just being up. Come on. Like, I would definitely be much more of that disposition. you have this beautiful soul of an artist and a poet in you. When you feel those despondent moments, you're just like, what do you need from me? What do people who are like you need from people who are like me? When you feel those moments, what's the best way of encouragement and support and camaraderie and strength you need from the people around you?

14:08 Dirt. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a nice question. and I am unique and maybe there's people out there with my kind of personality. There's a lot of artists floating around. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's a sense of let me listen. Let me... partner with you, not in fixing you or answering you, but like, yeah, I think today at some point you're like, man, what can I do for you? I know he didn't answer, he's asking you now. Yeah, yeah, no, because I think that's it, you know, just being like, what can I do for you? You know, I think, personally, I think I feel crazy sometimes, you know, because of all of the things that I feel and sense. And sometimes I wake up and I feel and sense things that I can't even really articulate. And I can't figure out if it's just the stuff in the world.

15:13 Yeah, you know this. I get deeply, deeply connected to pain in the world, pain that people are going through. I get emotional. But yeah, it's an odd thing. I mean, I feel blessed to feel that. Yeah, I think I remember when we were first married and we would fly to different cities and you would feel different things at different cities. And it so shocked and surprised me. And then I remember your dad would travel with him one time and he felt the same way. And I remember they went, oh, I said, I wondered not if something was wrong with you, but I'm like. I wondered that all the time. But yeah, just seeing that happen in your dad and realize that I think that it's part of a gift, an artist, a prophet, a feeler. We see that in the Bible through King David.

16:09 We see that through Peter. That there are biblical characters and heroes and people that God designed that way and called and used who are wired in that way for a purpose. Yeah. And I think people like me need to remember that, that my goal isn't to try to fix you, but to look at the beauty of God in it and say, hey, what's God speaking and moving and doing in this season that couldn't happen in the other season? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's really helpful. I mean, for sure, it's helpful for the rest of my day today. Yeah, I don't know why some of us are like that. But I feel like a current or like waves, you know, and a tide. And sometimes the tide is high, sometimes the tide is low.

17:05 Trying to navigate a sense of consistency without grasping for control is a really interesting, challenging thing. I think more than anything, for whatever reason, and I don't know if we're doing like therapy now and assessment of my personality. But I just, I don't want to all the time. But I had a difficult phone call today for an hour with someone who was just, you know, complaining and sharing all their pain with me and crying. And yeah, I just, I feel it. And then I feel about the other people that are involved in the situation. And I sometimes just don't know what to do with all of that. And that's ultimately my life. My life isn't that complicated. I'm just like pretty much on text messaging, phone calls every day from people that are going through stuff that I have felt called to kind of help and encourage. But at the same time, I think I feel things on a national level in our country right now.

18:05 I think it's a moment. I guess it always is. But, you know, the amount of visceral that has been intentionally injected into our country and culture for power and prominence and gain and greed is alarming. I know what it is because I'm just as human as everybody else. And I know what greed feels like and desire for power feels like. And so I kind of know what it looks like. And yet here we are in another contest for the highest office in our country. and gossip and misinformation is so, so prevalent. That hurts humans. It hurts people. So I definitely am feeling that. But I think what I continue to resist and want to resist, and you're really good at this, is this attempt to control or manipulate outcome.

19:01 And so, yeah, I mean, I think I find myself on days like this going, hey, I'm not in control. I have to trust God with this. The cool thing about my personality is give me an hour and everything could change and I could be on cloud nine. Well, I think the other thing, I don't know if this is about your personality, but about your character, is you mentioned tides and currents and you ride those tides and you feel those currents. But I so often, I can trust that you're going to feel deeply, but you don't make decisions based on emotion. you're very good at making decisions based on that based on conviction and counsel and things that we have set up for making decisions so i i that means a lot and and that means a lot to me as a spouse because i don't have to worry that uh you're gonna be feeling a certain way and then go off and and and ride these rides to a place where we don't feel like god is calling us to go if that makes sense yeah so that you that you're able to feel deeply and i think the reason people call you is because they know that you're empathetic and you're going to feel with them and there's that incredible gift that you have um i appreciate that a lot and i think i know god wired it designed you that way so so i have a fear if you're leading this into like me telling you how great you are well done. Yeah. Wow. This has been a really, really good episode. I didn't get paid. I'm kidding. Basically, we were doing therapy. What would you say, and we won't go much longer, but what would you say to people out there listening? This can relate to, I think, of moms first. They have to be strong for their children and yet sometimes they wonder who will be strong for me.

20:59 Dads, business lawyers, doctors, lawyers. You go down the list, there's so many different roles and I start thinking about like, oh, it's pretty much everyone. There are moments in their speech Yeah, but I can imagine right now this episode could relate to someone who's listening going, I am trying to be strong for a group of people. But I'm starting to wonder, how am I going to be strong? Because I think I need someone to check on me, and yet I'm the person that checks on everybody else.

21:44 What's your advice? certainly there's like, you know, I love everyone's recommending that everyone get a therapist, except therapists are really expensive. So just to be clear, I think that's an awesome notion. And I hear like a bunch of people in entertainment and stuff. Tell us. I actually haven't even said. You do? Yeah. Okay. And I don't want this to be a tried answer. So I'm going to tell the story first before I get to the tried answer, because it actually is a Bible story that I'm going to get to. And it comes from Damon, who was, I think was also a poet. And like a person. If you read the book of Psalms, they feel schizophrenic, right? He's high one moment, low the next moment, and God save everybody one moment and kill everybody the next moment. But he was also an incredible leader. And he had his group, they were literally called David's Mighty Men. And at one point, these men so cared for him that they went, he just said, oh, I missed the water back from home, basically. And they went and risked their lives, their actual lives to run behind enemy lines to go get him that water. And they brought him the water and and he poured it out. It's a whole different story. But this group, I mean, they had been through some things together. And at one point, David and his mighty men all went out to battle.

22:52 While they were gone, different enemy came in and they literally took their wives, their children, their supplies, their food, and ran off with him. And that's the only time when David's mighty men actually turned on him. And we're like, well, what are you doing? We followed you. We followed you to this battle and because of that, I mean, our livelihood, our money, our wives, our children, I can't imagine a worse, slower moment than that. And there's just this one little phrase in that story. And that phrase could be trite. What I'm about to say could sound like a trite answer if you didn't understand the background of what David was actually facing. And here, the emotional guy had to be stronger for everybody else. And that phrase said, and David encouraged himself in the Lord. And I don't know what that looks like.

23:44 I think the Bible intentionally leaves that bag for us so that it can matter to each and every one of us. But I do think there are always gonna be times when it feels like no one's showing up for us. And we have to learn what it is to go. And I don't think David had days and days to do this because he had to get his army together. He had to encourage himself so he could encourage his men to go after and fight another battle to get their wives and kids back. But I do think there is that concept that David encouraged himself in the Lord. And I don't know what that looks like for you or for moms or for teachers. I know what that looks like for me, but I don't want to give him a formula because it's not a formula. It's what is that? And I do believe that God is, Jesus said to the woman at the well, hey, come and drink for me.

24:35 and you'll have a fountain that will, you'll never thirst again. And I, I, and Jesus followers, that is just what we have to believe that there's always a never ending fountain and never ending well of encouragement that we can go and get from God for ourselves that nobody can get for us. And that, uh, whatever that looks like in that moment, but you seem bothered that I'm answering that. No, no, not at all. No, I'm contemplative for sure. And I think maybe one of the most profound errors we make in that is we take something that is very spiritual, invisible, deep, and very, very important, and we turn it into something that we can control and something that we can manipulate and something that we can just do. And I think it's probably encouraging yourself in the Lord is probably more about being, making yourself available to the divine and seeing if in fact he'll meet with you and speak to you.

25:40 I think it often results in this feeling of suddenly for some reason, I have perspective on my life. And the good news that I have in this podcast is I have true, true friends and true brothers that are involved in my life. And I think part of the way that I encourage myself in the Lord is that I know that I'm not alone. That may not be true of people who are listening. but I think God in his wonderful way can do that. I think one of the things I love about our guided prayers over at the church home platform that we're putting together and continue to build is the introduction to these little five, seven, eight minute guided experiences where it's like, hey, would you make space right now? And I suppose in a way that's a good takeaway to get people out there when you're feeling like I'm feeling today, it's definitely worth giving yourself some space.

26:40 My back started hurting today. And guess what the first thought was? I should probably stretch. But you don't feel like stretching. At least I don't until your back starts hurting. And it's amazing how much regular margin and space made for the divine keeps this robust, nimble, healthy life full of challenges and difficulties. But it is amazing on days like this. I'm like, God, where are you? It's like, man, I got so much to give you. Just give me some space. It doesn't take much. A lot of people say you need an hour. You might only need 60 seconds. But really, the other day I was making space for God, doing a guided prayer in the bathtub like I do. And someone came to mind. And I thought I got to text him and I grabbed my phone, which was played the guided prayer. And I went to text him and I was like, I think this is counterproductive.

27:35 I think you need to put the phone down and at least finish this six minute guided prayer. But it is amazing how difficult it is for us to stretch, drink water and give God six minutes, you know. But then all of a sudden you're dehydrated, your body aches and you're wanting where God is. And there are, you know, some really simple things we can barely even take credit for. drinking a little extra water, stretching. And in the case of where I find myself today, it's just, you know, give God some space to do for your soul what you just can't do for yourself. Yeah. And is it oversimplistic just to say, hey, God, I need you to encourage me. Yep. I need that from you. I can't get that from anybody else right now. And just see what God does and what he can do. And I believe he shows up. I know he does. And I don't think that showing up is... Oh, shoot.

28:26 Our dog is running out the driveway. Dog! Dog! Louie! Louie! He's out there! Guys, our dog is in the middle of the street, and our kids are absolutely clueless. We are not editing this out. Our dog is this big, and he's literally in the middle of the street. He's running out. Oh, my word. Well, that's a wonderful way to end this podcast. Will you please pray for us before I go? At least we saw our dog. Yeah, at least our dog didn't get eaten by a big bird today. Yeah, or run over.