Bringing Distinction To Your Friendships

0:29 And so today we're really going to explore the nature of friendship, good friendship and quote unquote bad friendship, seasonal friendship, situational friendship, and why it's important to always take stock of the people closest to you. Because these people have the power to change your life. So stick with us today on In Good Faith. Okay. I remember when we first got married, you had a friend who had been a friend for a lot of years. So you'd been used to him and kind of the way he talked to you. But once I came into the picture, I remember being so frustrated with his friend because he always cut you down. and it felt, I don't know what it was now looking back, but if I'd guess it felt like his own insecurity and his own comparison with you, like he would feel better about himself and he would constantly just put these little cut downs and these little put downs and it bothered the crap out of me as somebody who loves you and believes.

1:33 Ooh, the language to that. Ooh, yeah, and believes in you. Do you remember that scenario? Yeah, it had become so normalized to me that a friend was just giving me a hard time and I won't let you become a big deal and who do you think you are? and you're still just going to be Judah to me. And then all of a sudden- No, he would cut you down and try to say you weren't intelligent, make fun of your grades. I mean, it was deeper than that. It was pretty brutal. Yeah, it was pretty brutal. I got a lot of that, I think, from my friends. I never had great grades. So I got a lot of like, you're not smart. And I think I just kind of played into it. I was like, all right, I'll just play that role. This is in our early 20s when we first got married. And so much of your confidence and your identity and who you are, your whole life is shaped by your friends, but especially at that age. And we made a conscious choice to drift away from that friendship. Yeah. And that actually set in motion an approach that we would use for the next 22 years. The word drift is a word that I'm going to put on the table right at the beginning of this episode, because when it comes to friends that are counterproductive, when it comes to friends who think about themselves, when it comes to friends who use other friends to serve themselves and their convenience and their whims and their desires, there needs to be drift and you need to allow that natural drift to happen.

2:52 Sometimes it takes a little bit more direct drift and communication in that regard. But in this case, I talked to my friends specifically and said, I can't let you do this anymore. It's inappropriate. You make fun of me. You make me small. And I want to be around people that make me feel big and I want to make you feel big. And so, oh yeah, man, for sure, for sure. And then that never changed and we just drifted. Yeah. Okay. So at the top of this episode, I'm going to make a big statement. Whoa. Tell me if you agree or disagree. I would say that other than your faith, which for us is our relationship with Jesus and our relationship with each other, that your friends have the power to shape who you become more than anything else. Do you agree with that? I would agree with that. In fact, I'd take it a step further. We've heard it been said, and I'm sure our listeners have heard this, show me your friends and I'll predict or show you your future. The people you put around yourself is usually the direction or trend or habits or decorum that you begin to practicing.

3:50 We can all sit here on this episode and pretend you're so different than the people around you, but not for long. You will become a lot like the people around you. Well, and I think that's such an interesting piece of growing up. You know, we think of growing up and becoming an adult. We think of getting a job and becoming responsible. But actually, I think one of the most important decisions we make in the process of growing up is actually having the opportunity and the capability of choosing our friends, right? Because when we're in school, you play sports with people, you go to school with people, you kind of have a group you hang out with. It's not necessarily such a conscious choice maybe when you're in school and growing up, but eventually it becomes a very deliberate decision, hopefully, and maybe that's where we need to start. I do think that's where we need to start. And I appreciate you saying that because if we're really honest, so many people take friendships as they come, as opposed to making a deliberate decision, not too dissimilar to the kind of style of sweatshirt or t-shirt or blouse you want to wear. And I think when it comes to friends, we're like, well, I guess it's just my coworkers. I guess it's just my schoolmates.

4:53 I guess it's just my teammates. I guess it's just my cousins and my friends. I guess it's just the person who lives next door. There's never direction, expectation, or distinction brought to friendships or different kinds of friendships. We just kind of let them flow. And I think as a result, there's a lot of pain and a lot of things that happen in our life that we don't like, that we think are outside of our control. Yeah. And not just pain, but I think about the deliberate decisions that we make in life. All of the effort and thought and intentionality we put into our college or our career or the skill sets that we're learning, we do that with intention. But yet, we don't bring intentionality to our friendships. We don't. And it's because I think it's hard. And here's the question I would ask all of our listeners. And frankly, here's the question Chelsea and I ask ourselves all the time. It is always relevant. And here's the question. What kind of person do you want to be? What kind of person do you want to be? And in the context of our marriage, what kind of marriage do we want to have? It's you and I together. So who did Judah and Chelsea, who did Chelsea and Judah want to be? Who do we want to be? And we've been able to list out, not a super long list, but we want to be generous. We want to be caring. We want to be listeners. We want to be learners. And are you saying that that list then determines the friends that we intentionally go out and choose? I mean, it feels like such a funny exercise, but I think there's a lot of truth into it. And can I be so bold to talk about what we're in the middle of right now in the world and culture? We're in the middle of what they're calling the great resignation. We heard a wild crazy stat. And even if it's not true, if it's somewhat true, it's wild. That's 50% of people in the United States of America are considering changing their occupation or quitting their job. It's the great resignation. What an opportunity for us to also include the great reconsideration. Have you reconsidered your friendships and relationships? And are you asking hard questions? And I hope you can hear the passion in my voice. I know you're getting like a little preachy sounding. I just get so passionate about this. It's such a passion of mine. And I think because of the pain that I've experienced in this area.

6:56 So what would you say is a good friend? I mean, I love your list of, Hey, I want to be this person. And so are the people around me expressing those qualities that I want to become, but if we're growing in these things together, like if I want to be a generous person, but I'm not, somebody is going to not choose me, even though that's something I aspire to be. What would you say makes a good friend, even beyond those specific concrete categories that you were talking about listing? You know, there's this scripture that talks about this idea of a brother born for adversity, this quality and a friend and a connection that is like, when you are going through whatever you're going through, I'm going to be available. A brother born, a sister born for adversity, a person born for adversity. It's like when you're going through something, I'm going to be present with you there. And I think from that perspective, you can kind of begin to define like, what does it mean to be a friend? Does it just mean you have common habits you enjoy? You just like the same sports team. You like the same fit. You like the same clothes.

8:04 You like, wait, no, it's, it's, I think it's deeper than that. It's like, can I be there with my friends in good times, but also in adverse times and challenging times? Yeah. You talked about a friend born for adversity and like, oh, I'll match your scripture and I'll throw you one back at you. Because there's also a scripture that says we are to be the type of people who weep with those who weep, which is in other words, being with somebody in adversity, but also rejoicing with people who can rejoice. And I found that finding somebody who can do both is like finding gold. Because some people are, you're having a hard time. This is so good. They will be there with you. but other people, if you experience a success in your life, if you have been wanting to get pregnant or you get pregnant, or you experience a promotion in your career, or you're getting engaged and good things are happening in life.

8:58 I think it's just as valuable to have friends who will celebrate your successes as it is friends who will cry with you when you're crying and be with you in the middle of the tough times. That is absolutely profound. and I think is maybe the fullest portrait and picture we have of a good friend. They'll be the first to celebrate with you and the first to grieve with you. They're there with you. I'll admit this entire episode could go one direction and I don't want it to. And that is listeners or Chelsea and I on here assessing everyone around us without first and foremost really assessing ourselves. and I heard advice years ago and it's got holes it's not perfect but it's like be the person you want to marry like become that person right I mean how many times I mean in character not personality because hopefully you don't want to marry yourself yeah but like you know in care and concern and empathy and and celebration and and selflessness and so I think the whole conversation about the friends you keep, the friends you choose, starts with, am I this kind of person? And of course, for you and I, my love, that constant source of inspiration, the bar we set, the portrait we look at, the picture, the vision, is a real historical figure who lived named Jesus Christ and his way. And I'm going to risk the preacher part of me here for a moment because I cannot help right now.

10:46 And I get so excited. My palms are actually sweating, which is bizarre. Are they not? They actually really are. No, they really are. They really are. I get so excited. There's this scene. It's the shortest. Here's a little Bible trivia here. This will be fun. What's the shortest verse in the Bible? Jesus wept. There it is. Yes. So this is so easy to remember. There's this little scripture that says Jesus wept. But here's the question. Why did he weep? Because if you remember the story, He's weeping over the little brother, a family he's really close to. His name is Lazarus, and he's died. But he weeps. Jesus wept. The very next verse, he resurrects Lazarus, and he's not dead anymore. So why does Jesus cry over something the next verse he's going to change? Because there is still pain. And though the outcome's going to change, it doesn't change the pain today. And I think where we miss it sometimes for those of us out there who are Jesus followers and God worshipers, we think because eternal life or because Jesus is going to fix it all, it should minimize the pain we're in now.

11:49 And I think Jesus is the ultimate friend that's closer than a brother. And understanding the eternal one in linear time and space, he wept with his friends. I want to be that kind of friend, even though I know this will be fixed, this will be over. you want to minimize people's pain. You want to minimize people's success, but a true friend doesn't do that. And that's so good for me to hear because I am very, there's overreactors and I am very much an underreactor. If something urgent is going, it's like I slow down and pull back. And when somebody- Oh, it'll be fine. Oh, or that, like that Christian cliche, which is actually my favorite verse, Romans 8, 28, but we just want to tell each other, oh, it's going to work out for good. And we actually don't Don't sit with people and cry with people or stand with people and celebrate and rejoice with people. It's like we want people to get on with it. It's like, no, get on with it. And I want your emotion to match mine instead of being the friends who match our emotion to theirs.

12:45 And imagine how beautiful a friendship would be if we are both in this commitment to each other to match each other's emotions. That when you're happy, I can be happy. And then 20 minutes later, I can be sad and you're sad. And not that we're faking it, but there are literal physical things in our body that can change to empathize. And if we could grow in commitment to that. And I think what you're saying, which is so important, is friendship is not fixing. Friendship is connecting. Friendship is sitting. Friendship is listening. Well, there it is. Friendship is loving. I want to talk in a minute about how to be good friends or how to make a good friend. But first, I think it is also important to identify a bad friend because sometimes to figure out a productive friend. That's what I want to set a bad. Whatever you want to say, pick the word, because sometimes I think we can identify more easily with the bad than the good. If that makes sense.

13:44 The first thing that comes to my mind is actually a competing friend. When I think comparing friend, a comparing friend and a competing friend. Remember school races when you were a kid and you do those three-legged races where you literally tie up your middle legs together and you have to like run as one unit and one being. And I think the realization is that you're going to win or fall or die, but what you do, you do together. Whereas I think of a competing friend isn't tied to you, but they see you getting up ahead and so they feel behind. And so they want to pull you back or they want to rush to get ahead of you. And I think that can lead to a critical friend and a comparing friend. But I just don't see any benefit out of friendships where our friends are competing with us and our success makes them feel like they're not doing so good or our tragedy makes them feel like they're doing better. Does that make sense?

14:36 Yeah, absolutely. And one of the teachings and the dynamic within a committed relationship like marriage is this idea that there is a washing of sorts with your words. Come on, we've all been there where it's like, I just got to get home and take a hot shower. This has just been a wild day. It's almost like you're washing the day off. You're washing the whatever. A hot shower can do a lot for our psyche and our brain. But I think a good friend can too. There's a relief there. There's a healing there. There's a protection there. It's like, whoa, you heard me. I'm seen. I'm cared for. I'm protected. I'm loved. And I think about all the times I haven't done that. for my friends. I have been curt. I've been in a hurry. I've been thinking about myself. Here's one of the giveaways of someone who's maybe not being the most productive friend is they're constantly thinking about what you haven't done for them. You never call me.

15:38 Can I say that in a different way? A friend who keeps score. There it is. Whether it's things that you have done for them or haven't done for them, or if you paid for dinner, they paid for dinner, or you got them a great birthday gift, and now you're expecting a great birthday gift in return, that it's a friend who does things to keep score instead of just out of love and genuine care and compassion. And guess what God doesn't do with us? Never keep score. Never keep score. And gosh, a marriage will never work. That's exactly what I was going to say. Oh my gosh. Friends that keep score. You just got to, you got to cancel the game. Just got to cancel the game. You got to get out of that game and say, all right, you win. I'm out. Get out of that game and do it. Here's the trophy. Here's the ribbon. God be with you. And do what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, just beautiful drift away from a friendship. One of the things that we've realized does not work with us. You have, I love this about you. You are so committed to me and you're so committed to our kids that we are your priority and all of your friends. And all of your friends know that. And your friends who you've really landed and fed well with are the ones who respect that boundary that you set. They realize, no, when it's family dinner, I'm not going to answer my phone. If my wife and I are on a date, I'm not even going to look at my context, I'm going to make our kids' basketball games a priority. And that we have friends who respect those boundaries, not who push them and try to shame you for having them or make you feel like you're not a good friend because you have your own boundaries. And that is so significant for us in healthy friendships. Yeah, there has to be a respect for those boundaries. And when those boundaries are crossed, I was on a conversation recently where I was sharing with someone I need to go. I need to go. I can't keep talking. And that didn't seem to be respected.

17:15 And that was registered in me. It's like, well, that's counterproductive in relationships and friendships. And if you're going to have people you share your life with, we've got to really be able to respect each other's boundaries. It's a wonderful litmus test for friends. Yeah. And emergencies are real. And they happen 10 times in life. Exceptions. Exceptions to those boundaries. But those are very rare. And if somebody's always in a state of emergency, then... It's not going to be sustainable long term. Because it's a way of violating boundaries. Yep. And of course, we're talking about the lifelong friends that are your close, close heart friends. Think about Anne of Green Gables and bosom buddies, but that's such a weird one. Bosom buddies? Did you just say bosom buddies? I don't know why that came to my mind. Wow. So I had to clarify why. I wasn't expecting to hear that statement today. But I also think there are seasonal friends that can be great for a season, whether it's you're raising kids together and so you get to do play dates together, or you are in a basketball league together or friendships around a common interest and just enjoying those for what they are and letting them be seasonal or situational friends and not always expecting that those friendships are going to become bosom buddies.

18:25 Yeah, and I caution people around overanalyzing themselves when seasons change. I must have done something terrible. I must be a bad person. That old friend that's drifting or moving or changing, they're bad. and you start labeling things good or bad, that's the only part of the episode I would just caution people when you start going, good friend, bad friend. Well, it could be seasonal friend. It could be professional friend. It could be sports friend. It could be running club, reading book club friend. And it's okay to have friends that are connected to a context or a season or a hobby. Like that's okay. And don't you think it's just so important to have an awareness of what the level of that friendship is. And we can still be intentional with friends in that way. And not put unrealistic expectations on people. Chelsea and I just got in a wonderful conversation at this place we were visiting with just a couple in their mid-50s. And we started talking and it was such a great conversation and we thoroughly enjoyed it. We were literally watching a sports game together.

19:30 Yeah, sports game. Yeah. In a common area. And then we saw them again later around the property and they were like, hey, give us your number. We'd love to connect. And both Chelsea and I looked at each other like, oh, we thought there was an understanding that we were like, you know, staying at the same hotel. And that was just why we connected, you know? And so I just want you to know, like even in the case of that wonderful, sweet, kind couple, like Chelsea and I don't feel any pressure to necessarily make that more than what it was. And just letting some friendships be what they are. What I admire about you, and it was one of the things I wish I could change about myself, is how good you are at making friends. And actually, I think everybody feels like they're such close friends with you. I'm not so good at making friends. And it's so interesting even watching this dynamic with our kids, the ones who are great at making friends and the ones who struggle with it a little bit more. It is so real, even in DNA. So please don't ask this question back to me because I don't have an answer. But how do we make friends? If we realize I'm not being intentional with my friends, I want those really good quality friendships, like you were talking about. How do I go about finding those people and developing that friendship to get to that level? The basic response to that is really anchored to ancient scripture, which says, show yourself, demonstrate yourself as a friendly person. And I think what it actually means is this idea of being open to people, open-handed, open-hearted, open-minded, listening, asking questions. The interesting thing is when you really dig in, I'm good at being friendly and making friends with a lot of people. What you're good at is making deep friendships. And I think the reason for that is you have really embodied friendly. Friendly is not just gregarious. It's

21:41 not just decorum. It's also depth. And the depth that you bring with your friends is asking meaningful questions and listening. And I emulate that. You know I do. And I love it and respect. And it's a lot of what I learned from you. It is interesting you bring that up. Because when I think about high school years and even early college years, I felt like I didn't have friends. But looking back, I realized, no, I had three good friends in high school. I had three good friends in college. And if I look at life now, I have three good friends. And realizing the way I'm wired, that's actually what my need is. Anything more than that, and I feel overwhelmed. Because shallow, I don't do shallow in friendships very good. It's either deep or nothing for me. and realizing what our personal need for friendship is, I think can be really helpful and really freeing. And for me not to compare myself to, how many friends do you need?

22:34 Well, you have 700 people that you text. You know, I don't know however many it is, but it's always been three friends for me. And I think I need to be okay with that. And we all need to be okay with whatever our capacity is. Yeah, and not allowing culture or context defined for us what it means to have deep, meaningful friendships. These numerical values we put, you need a circle of 12, then you need three close friends like Peter, James, and John. You need a model like Jesus. It's like, okay, everyone just exhale and just calm down a little bit. I think we're all uniquely individuals and originals from God. And the way we connect, there is some uniqueness to this. There are some common tools that we can learn that I hope that you're learning a little bit from this episode, but maybe the common tool we need most of all is to recognize that we're all very individual and unique when it comes to friends. I would urge people to explore. What does friendly mean for me? Friendly for Chelsea Smith means I want to sit one-on-one with someone and ask them really meaningful questions. And then what I love about you is you listen and you learn. I know a lot of people who ask questions and while you're answering, they are gone. They check out. And you're like, oh, I think they were just doing a conversation starter. And then you're like looking around the room to catch eye contact with someone who might listen to your response. But you are that incredible combination. It's one of the reasons I married you and love you and obsessed with you. You ask questions and then you lean in, you look deep, and you're like, oh, I can't wait to hear what they're going to say. And that is friendly for Chelsea. For me, I would freak a lot of people out that I think I'm friendly with, acquaintances with and friends with if I just went right there.

24:16 For me, it's typically like complimenting them and saying, man, I just, I love this about you. I love who you are. And hey, if you ever need anything, I'm here for you and I appreciate you. And Chelsea could look at the way I am friendly and I could look at the way you're friendly and be like, you're too deep and weird. Don't do that. And you could be like, you're too surfacy and flighty. Don't do that. But each in our unique way, I think we've discovered how we surround ourselves with the right kind of friends. Yeah, I really like that you've brought it back to personality and how we're each individually made and wired. Because I do think that is so important. Yeah. I mean, in every area of life, but particularly in relationships, because relationships are so heartfelt. They're so deep. They're so at the core of who we are that if we're trying to be somebody else while making friends, then we're actually never going to be able to make real quality friendships. Like if I tried to make a friendship on the basis of surfacy, fun, complimenting high energy, I could never sustain that friendship because that's not me being myself.

25:20 But I love what you're saying is if you enter into a friendship being yourself, you can sustain it and you can keep it. And then it can grow and become deep because you entered it into being yourself. But the one other thing I would add, and I asked the question and said I didn't have anything to add. I think you might be thinking what I'm thinking. And then I realized I do. It's actually being honest with people and having a meaningful moment to say, I would like to get to know you better. Or your friendship means a lot to me. And actually verbalizing and vocalizing the importance or meaning of the friendship. Or man, I have so much fun with you when we play tennis. Let's keep this up playing tennis or whatever it is that we vocalize and verbalize, which is such a great way of creating boundaries for friendship. And there it is. Yeah, we're on the same wavelength. Yeah. When I think about friendships in the seasons of our lives that we have been in, I think one of the things that has made the most significant difference between the good friendships and the not so great ones is actually having healthy boundaries in place.

26:19 And I think those boundaries first are something that we need to figure out for ourselves. What is the boundary of this friendship? What is the expectation for this friendship? Is it a seasonal friendship? Is it a lifelong friendship? Is this somebody who I'm going to bear my whole soul to? Or is this somebody who I'm going to connect around parenting with? And first determining in our own mind what we think those are. And then in a healthy way, actually communicating those. The older we get, the worse we get at something we need more than ever. And that is the older you get, you actually need to bring more distinction, definition, connection, and communication around your friendships. I think that's when things get wonky and weird because the music changes on the dance floor of life. And all of a sudden you have to dance different and you're like, uh-oh, wait. And seasons come and seasons go. And so I agree. You and I practice bringing definition to friendships. There are friendships you and I currently have that are like, hey, this is transcendent beyond seasons. This is long-term.

27:24 And then there's even recently pain we've gone through with friends that, if we're really honest, the pain that we experienced was a misappropriation of what the friendship was. We thought it was lifelong, but it was really more of a professional relationship. We worked together, so we were close. When we don't work together anymore, we're not as close. And no one's bad or wrong for that. It's just a change of season. Proximity changes. Communication naturally changes. And there's a drift. Yeah. And there's a drift and that's okay. That's okay. But in the meantime, almost bringing careful distinction when given the opportunity to say, Hey, I'm really excited that on Thursdays we play doubles in tennis, you know, at the public court. And I just, I think we're great tennis friends. And I love that. And I want you to know that I am here for you, but I just love knowing that we're good tennis buddies. Yeah. It sets up expectations that are realistic on both ends.

28:20 It's almost like a mini negotiation in a friendship. Like I have an expectation of you that you are my husband. And so there's things I expect because that I have expectations of our closest friends. And there's expectations of seasonal partners. And I think that's really healthy and sets us up for success instead of heartbreak and grief. Yesterday, I text a friend who we live close to each other in the summertime. And I said, cannot wait to play golf with you this summer. And that was a way of saying, And hey, in the summer, we see each other and we play golf. And then kind of another seven or eight months go by. And then we'll see, you know, we text here and there and it's about golf. And our relationship is golfing in the summer. And that's okay. I am really jealous about that and jealous, I think, in a good way. That you have a hobby that's so easy to build those friendships around. My hobby is more reading or studying. And those are more isolated activities.

29:14 They're not so much solo. I guess you can do a book club, which my sister has. Of course, that's your fault for not learning to golf. I'm kidding. We're not blaming people and faulting people. I think it fits our personalities. So it really works. Toolkit for keeping good friendships or maintaining good friendships. One of the things that I think is so important in a practice that you and I have developed, we call it, it's such a weird phrase. I have no idea how we came up with this, but we call it filling empty spaces with trust. How would you describe what that is? Yeah, this is probably one of the perspectives and views we have that has kept us from a lot of relational pain. A lot of relational pain. It might be one of the most important beliefs and perspectives that we have held around friendships. And it's kept us from maybe being jaded.

30:11 From being hurt. From being hurt. Bittered. You're so right. and probably from believing and digesting the gossip mill. And that is that the last thing we communicated on, that's where we are, and that's awesome. And low communication is a sign that we're good, and everything's great, and we just assume the best. We believe the best. And it really comes from 1 Corinthians 13. We believe that love believes the best about the person you love. You believe the best, you speak the best, and you think the best. And that is the commitment we've made in loving our friends. Yeah, I think about my sister specifically. She has been probably my best friend for our whole lives because she's my sister. We're only two years apart. It's such a special relationship. But I think over the years when we've lived in different cities or our careers were in different places or having kids, And we would at times go for two weeks without calling, or maybe I'd call her and she didn't call back.

31:13 Then I called again and she didn't call back. Then I had to call again and she didn't call back. How easy it is for our human nature to fill that empty space with distrust. And with my sister thing, is she mad at me? Is something wrong with me? Did I do something to offend her? And we go down that rabbit hole in our minds of distrust, of questions. Instead making a choice to, man, I love my sister so much. I know she loves me. I bet she's really busy with a work project right now. Oh, she mentioned her kids are in basketball right now. I know she has so much going on there. And last time we talked, she said she loved me. And filling those empty spaces with trust instead of with questioning and negativity. And it sounds like, oh, what a cool perspective. But it actually plays out every day. Every single day. Yep. At some point during the day, we are filling empty space with trust. It's with each other.

32:05 It's with our kids. It's with our friends. It's with relatives and family. There's not a day that I can remember in probably 22 years that we haven't had a moment during the day where it's like, nope, that person, I love that person. They're amazing. We're going to connect again. But in the meantime, we just think the best of them. And I will say the only downside to this is that sometimes in my experience as a friend, I haven't been a great friend to people because I haven't needed communication to feel like, no, we're good. And I want to actually shout out my sister, Wendy Perez, who's one of my best friends in the whole wide world, because it wasn't that long ago that she came to me and said, I wish we were closer. I want to be closer. And I realized what I had done. I had filled the empty space with trust.

32:59 I was like, my sister and I were the best. But guess what? We weren't really communicating. We weren't really talking. And she, you know, because she's such a strong, beautiful woman and without strong women, by the way, I think this world would have ceased to exist as we know it. Strong women are my heroes. She goes, I want to be closer. I want to communicate more. And it just meant the world to me. And as a result, I think we're in one of the most meaningful seasons of friendship, my sister and I, because she had the courage to communicate. And so I think there is, yes, fill empty space with trust, but also remember as you do that, there may be people in your world who kind of need to step in and go, hey, we haven't talked in a long time. Are we good? And not reacting. Your sister in that instance did such a good job of bringing clarity to the relationship. And that takes work, takes vulnerability. And in a way that was really beneficial to the relationship.

33:55 So friendships determine so much of who we become. Deeply. Deeply. We have made a commitment, and I'm going to say it. Chelsea and I have made a commitment to continue to be the kind of friends we want. And if I could give one little tool in my toolkit away at the end of this episode, is it is amazing. The more we commit to being the friends we want to have, we seem to attract that. and I think we could all obsess and analyze our whole list of friends or probably a little bit more sober approach and a little more honest is like, okay, I'm gonna commit to be this kind of friend. And honestly, our life doesn't work unless we have friends who fill empty space with trust. Yeah, yeah.

34:48 I wanna pray for listeners. I want you to. And really just to pray for good friendships to come their way. And Jesus, I thank you so much that you care about the details of our lives. Lord, that as we've been having this conversation, you have heard the conversation that every listener has had in their head and the hurts from past friendships that have been brought up, the loneliness that has been brought up, the questions that have been brought up. And Lord, I pray right now you would be real to every listener and you would come and you would bring answers and you would bring peace. But Jesus, most importantly, I pray that you would bring hope. I pray that you would give every listener hope that they can have good friendships, meaningful friendships, friendships that will enable them to be the person who you have made and called them to be for their lives. And Lord, I pray that that hope would energize all of us to go out and take the energy and the vulnerability to pursue those friendships and those relationships.

35:44 We love you, Jesus. We thank you for your involvement in our real...