Building A Lasting Love

0:02 Okay, name the movie. Oh, name the movie. I mean, you're going to get it. It's a classic. Yes. Mowage. Princess Bride. Yes. I almost said family matters. I'm not sure why. Family matters, yeah. But that classic line, right? Mowage. Mowage. What brings us together today is Mowage. Was it Billy Crystal? Oh, so good. Billy Crystal isn't in Princess Bride. Billy Crystal is the pastor the priest who does the marriage line I feel like we need to fact check it but yeah is that true? it's Billy Crystal no way that's crazy I didn't know that marriage look it learn something every day huh? oh man we have our favorite guest with us yep today the old Louis Merle here he is he doesn't say very much but yep he's pretty happy hopefully he doesn't say very much yeah hopefully He's so cute.

1:03 You guys, the other day I was away from the kids and I literally miss Louie more than I miss the kids. You did? Yeah. You're not supposed to record that on our podcast. I know. That is kind of true. But I am so excited to talk about marriage today. Let's do it. And really get into, obviously you and I have been married for 24 years, which has been... Don't want to brag. Right, don't want to brag. But I used to say when the kids were toddlers, I said that parenting was the hardest, most fulfilling thing I'd ever done. but 24 years into marriage that has shifted to marriage and i would say that marriage really the hardest most fulfilling thing i have done with my life well at least i like the fulfilling part hardest uh has it been the hardest for me maybe i don't know i don't think so yeah you don't have you don't have to agree with me it's more fun when we disagree um but just just getting into Obviously, we have such a passion for people not only to stay married. Great.

1:57 That's a great baseline goal. But to enjoy their marriage, enjoy their spouse, enjoy their time with each other. That reflects on your kids, reflects on your church, reflects on society. I think so many problems in our world would be solved if we could just actually fix marriages. Would you agree with that statement? Jeez. Yeah. I think so. So this is our attempt to change the world through, not through fixing marriages. Yeah, thank you for joining us on this episode where we're going to fix marriages everywhere. I know, fix, oh, like Chris Martin. What's the Coldplay song? Fix You. Fix. Fix me. Fix me. I think it's Fix You. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear me sing. But anyway, so let's get into it. What would you say is the hardest, most fulfilling thing you've done then if it's not marriage? Golf. Oh, I'm kidding. Actually, no, you're half kidding maybe a little bit.

2:55 No, no, no. It's actually kind of true. No, come on. Ministry, pastoring, preaching. No. Yeah, I think parenting is probably still, only because I find parenting to be a little more difficult than marriage, at least right now. Yeah, teenagers is really real. Well, here's what's... Marriage has the... Because I've given you my whole heart. And, you know, if you don't know, we fell in love when we were 10. We fell in like when we were 10. Yeah. Felt kind of in love when we were like 12. And then fell like deeply in love when we were 20. But you're yawning. I am, yeah. It was like just such a bad time to yawn. So I was like trying to cover it up and pretend it wasn't happening. I'm glad you're so... Because you're literally describing like our romance. Yeah, you're like... That's boring. Nice, babe.

3:47 that. I didn't mean that. Thanks. I will. I'll receive that. Hey everybody. I'm super excited about one of our sponsors, AG1. And the reason for that is it covers a lot of nutrient gaps. And on top of that supports my mental and physical health. I love the fact that it replaces my multivitamin and my supplements for energy and focus. So here's what we're going to do for our listeners, get a free one year supply of vitamin D3 K2 and a five free AG1 travel pack with your first purchase at drinkag1.com backslash ingoodfaith. That's drinkag1.com backslash ingoodfaith. because i gave you my whole heart like i there is not i can honestly truly say there isn't a part of my heart that i have held back from giving it to you which is thank you for handling it well but i haven't given my kids my heart in the same way i don't know if that's fair or bad they're they're a part of me in a very different way than you are but like the the deepest like the deepest parts of me you hold so you have the ability to like not hurt me deeply i mean yeah hurt me deeply but yeah so i would say i would that's why i would give it marriage yeah because you that's a good point i can get distraught in a way if you and i aren't on the same page that i'm not distraught over our kids yeah wow that's very true yeah i i've now completely agree with you that marriage is the hardest thing in the whole wide world yes i love being right wait and the most fulfilling but yeah and the level of fulfillment i think especially on the fulfilling level as we are getting close to a season of our kids moving out of the house which is coming about sooner than we know it realizing that the level of fulfillment coming from our almost needs to come from our marriage yeah then it can't just completely come from the kids I remember growing up that's a great point seeing so many couples and families who look like they had it all together

5:53 not I don't know what that means to look like they have it all together but you know what I mean like they seem like a very stable solid home and then when the kids got older and left marriages disintegrated yeah the bottom fell out the bottom fell out my mom's parents got divorced when she was 18 and she still had a little sister at home but it was like she's one of seven so she sorry she's number three of seven And so when she moved out, that was right about the time her parents got divorced. And it was interesting to me talking to my mom, by the way, how hard that was on her still. Like I think parents, it's easy to think, oh, the kids are out of the house now. My mom had lived, moved into a different city, but it was still just really difficult for her. Really difficult, yeah. But, sorry, all that to say, marriage and seasons. What would you say has been the hardest season of our marriage? And then what would you say has been the most fulfilling season of our marriage?

6:48 I would say in every particular answer, I would answer that it had a lot to do with what we were doing on a daily basis and the pressure attached to it. And that's, unfortunately, it's just that simple. We have done things together where we were young and experienced and unproven. and things started working out well. It was like, this is heaven. This is amazing. We're pleasantly surprising everyone. The youth ministry was growing, and we were visiting students at school. Oh, that was so fun going to high school basketball games, which now we get to do again as parents. Yeah, exactly. It's our son. Totally different. But I am the PA announcer for the games. Oh, do you know where the Clippers have a new announcer? Oh, they do?

7:41 Yeah, they leaned over to Zai at the games like, your dad should have taken that job. I'm not lying. I'm, I'm not exaggerating breaking news. If there's anyone, my, my, my friend is, is helps the Clipper organization. So that is our, that is our team that we cheer for. The owner obviously is also from Seattle, Mr. Ballmer. We love you. And since our Sonics left us. So we are big, big Clipper fans goes all the way back to Blake Griffin and Chris Paul and, and that whole era. So, uh, we love the Clippers, but, But I didn't know that. And if you're out there, Clippers, and you're watching this, I'd love to work as the PA announcer. I was about to give you a compliment, but you interrupted me. Oh, shoot. Sorry. I'm not going to lie. The new guy, I'm like, hmm, Judah does a better job than Elliot. You can't say that on our podcast. I can say it. What if he watches? I can say it on your wife. Oh, okay. Oh, you're just saying that I, you're saying he's great. He's great.

8:32 But I'm just better. But yes, you are. You are. There's our son. He just came. Oh. Is that? Yeah, well, that's our son. I don't know if you got it in the camera now. This is my other son. Louie, don't tell Zion I missed you more. Speaking of our son who's trying to... Come on in, son. Here he comes. This is real life, ladies and gentlemen. I think he was at a business meeting. We're live podcasting, so welcome to the show. You don't have to sit outside for the whole rest of our conversations. That would be literally outrageous. Big Cleveland Browns fan, that guy. Nah, he just likes the shirt. All right, man. All the best. All the best. Love you. Speaking of our son, the transition for me when we first had him, he's our firstborn, was a very difficult season of marriage for me.

9:26 Just adjusting to having, sorry, when I think of inside of our family. Obviously, when your dad was fighting cancer and dying. Yeah, it was hard for you. It wasn't hard for me just because of my ability to kind of adapt to the surroundings. and obviously that's just something that comes pretty natural to me. So I don't want to get into the nuts and bolts of what makes me so good at transitionary seasons. But, you know, that's something you struggle with. Next point. No, the truth is you were not used to sharing me. Oh, it is true. And all of a sudden we had this other human that... Sharing body parts of you? My God. My God. We're not going to get into the details. Yeah, let's not get into those details. But, yeah, that was a hard and a difficult season. It was. Actually, it was. He was a preemie, too. Oh, right. Little buddy. All right. Where were we? In case anyone's out there wondering whether or not this is in our home, it is. And we had no idea our kids were getting home two hours early today.

10:24 We forgot they had early dismissal today. My bad. It was fun. Okay. Back to what we were saying. Anyway, I was saying that what has been amazing for me looking back is that every hard season of marriage on the other side was an amazing, fulfilling, incredible season of marriage. Yeah. Did you say that? That is true. That's an interesting dynamic about life is that oftentimes right after the hardest seasons comes the most rewarding. That's probably worth listening to this episode for a bunch of people. What if most times the most difficult season yield to the most rewarding? That'd be awesome. That has happened a lot in our life. It's like the clean air after a storm. Yeah. No, no, no. That's kind of cheesy. That's a great metaphor. Right? After a storm, the air is so clean and everything is bright. Yeah, yeah.

11:18 Especially in LA, you see such dramatic difference after rainfall or kind of a little windstorm. And then the next day is just like pristine blue sky. Yeah. It's a good point. Yeah, it was. That has happened over and over for us. And I don't know. I think in a way I'm kind of hoping that that happens in this chapter of our life. I think we've gone through a very difficult season. I kind of feel like, to be honest, the most challenging season we've been through in our whole marriage is maybe it's just the one I remember the easiest and the most. It's kind of the one we're in now and also feels a little bit like we're coming out of. Yeah. You know what's different for me about this season compared to when Zion was first born and why I almost say that? is right now we do have the beauty of our teenage kids who i love so much that even though it's been a challenging season going to elliott's basketball games or when grace will come just chat in the bathroom with me and like doing our makeup together whatever those moments of incredible beauty yeah um have overshadowed maybe the pain of this for me a little bit of this past season whereas when we first had Zion it was like all we had was each other so that difficult season just felt like everything was difficult you know if that makes sense at all yeah absolutely and again I think these are encouraging thoughts I don't think our podcast is supposed to be a therapy session but it certainly feels like that today for me so I feel pretty encouraged about what's ahead I agree with that and you know one of the things I do the only thing I do online, let's be honest, on social media is Marriage Monday, which on, which is started after some really close friends of ours decided to get a divorce.

13:08 And I still want you to write a book. I know I keep saying I'm going to get there. You promised that we were going to do a marriage conference in Houston, Texas. And you said, before we get to that marriage conference, which you, you agreed to, I never even heard about until, um, it's coming up real soon. And I was like, wait, we're going where we're doing what? this is amazing okay thank you it's like yeah i booked by the way i am not allowed to book speaking engagements she is allowed to book whatever speaking engagements she wants me to do and that's the truth you know it's true hold on no no no no that's such are you being serious right now like you're a lot like i allow you and disallow you like i love it we get in a fight on a marriage podcast like i don't allow you and disallow you to do things uh yeah no i didn't mean to sound like you're my mom thanks um who doesn't do that to me anymore either tries mom i love you um no but like no you definitely have been like hey by the way you're you're speaking here and i was like oh i am and you're like yeah i'm like oh okay but like i don't take speaking engagement uh agreements anymore without your approval well no do you really want to get into it you just don't want to come to the calendar meeting where we could ask the questions and you are invited to every single one and you could also have way in that's not nearly as sexy as just saying that you just make decisions for us and then i just show up i know but i love these speaking engagements i want to say to everyone who's had us come speak thank you it's it's fun i love it and um just want to thank my wife for allowing me to do that oh my gosh it's so inaccurate.

14:44 She's going to let it go because we're talking about marriage. Because we're on camera. And you're making it sound like I'm in charge. But the point is, you said you would write Marriage Monday by our next vegan engagement and you've not done that. But as formerly noted, it has been a bit of a challenging season. So maybe I haven't quite had the creative energy to put a book together. That's fair. And that's fair. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So. That was a good fight. That was a good fight. Good resolution. So moving on. But because the reason I started it, when some of our really good friends were going through a divorce, and just seeing how hard it was on both of them, and not, you know, as you have to do in friendships, not taking sides one way or the other, but just seeing the agony of it, just thinking what can we do in front of a divorce before a divorce? Before that decision is made, yeah, to aid. To aid in healthy, fun, fulfilling, even though it's difficult. and your husband, your spouse can get into your heart, all of that.

15:43 But just we do care about and really passionate about marriages being healthy and fulfilled. Yeah, I just believe in the commitment that humans can make to each other to exclusively give each other access and their body to just one other person. is a it's a like no matter what you believe about your worldview or your concept of the divine or history or whatever like you you got to admit there is something that remains so deeply compelling when one human gives another human their whole self and they risk it and they like oftentimes get family and friends to witness that public commitment and beginning of that arrangement which I just think is still, even if you're not steeped in like ancient scripture, I say steeped, but I mean, I've just given my life to study as of you.

16:40 You're currently getting your master's in studying scripture, by the way. Yes, I am. I'm taking the very slow route of one class at a time. So I feel like people who know how long it should take to get their master's in theology. Yeah, I know. Little by little, which is probably how you work. Well, it's amazing because I feel like I'm digesting everything I've learned. I'm actually really loving one class at a time. But yes, people who are steeped in scripture, even if you aren't, the benefits of marriage for me, here's my two favorite benefits of marriage. First of all is knowing and being known wholly and deeply and loved. The fact that you know my good, my bad, my ugly, my strengths, my weaknesses, you know all the details about me. I don't think there's any secrets that I've kept from you intentionally. And you know all those things and you still love me and you still choose me. I know God feels that way about me and it's great, but I can't see God.

17:35 I can't touch God. And sometimes it feels like God feels that way about everybody. So maybe it doesn't feel that special, but you only feel that way about me. And it just makes me feel really special and just confident. And I want to get into my second benefit. Oh, shoot. Okay, I'm so excited. No, say something. No, I'll say it after you. Okay. One of my favorite parts about marriage. My second is imagining a life where I know I'm going to have a constant companion. And I mean, obviously, other than death, which is a reality at some point in life, but other than death separating us, the fact that I can dream and envision my life knowing I have this constant companion that I get to live out all of the changing seasons of life with it. I get to live empty nest with, and I get to live retirement with, and I get to, you know, when I'm probably going to bury my parents and I get to do that with you.

18:31 All of the highs and lows and the beauty and the pain and all of those things in life. The fact that I get to do that with the person who knows me and loves me. And these are very selfish. Yeah. Just selfish benefits. But they're my favorite. Makes me happy. I think of marriage and I'm going to say what I'm going to say because I hope it makes this episode more compelling and intriguing. but I think what excites me is whatever is is rare is valuable and I don't know if marriage itself is rare but a love affair within a marriage seems very rare we are very convoluted in our culture we we love a good love story but so much of the cultural norms in terms of the fads and the language in our songs and our entertainment and whatever is, is actually kind of like, I don't know if it's hugely productive to like a lifelong love story. It's, it's kind of like, oh, it's sexy to like have somebody on the side or like, you know, don't, don't get the ball in the chain and like all these kind of, kind of connotations and cliches that we use around marriage so i think when people see uh humans who've committed themselves a long long time and loved each other a long long time um it matters to me when someone's like we've been married 60 years you're like what bro that's like longer than i've been alive that's how do you do it you know and you still see a little skip in their step and a glimmer in their eye when they look at each other and that's older couples that's rare older couples holding hands gets me every time like They're walking.

20:11 Like I want to be the weirdo and take a picture of strangers when I see an older couple holding hands. And what's rare is valuable. And I feel like at the stage of life we're in, one of the reasons marriage is going to continue to be a conversation and a topic that we enjoy bringing up. It won't be the last episode we do on marriage. I can tell you that much, especially if she writes a book. But it's rare and it seems very valuable. This is one of the most valuable things I have left on the planet. is you and what we have together and nurturing is the right term i think that's the title we put down for this episode but it is a it's it it is a journey of of nurturing and it's um it's really really really rewarding but i find you to be very rare as a human and i find what we have to be to be very very rare and if i could say the second thing i love about marriage is that it you know You know, first thing is it's rare, it's valuable.

21:09 But the sexiness of marriage, I think you and I just set out to be like, yeah, I want to be sexy. And I'm not going to apologize for that. And I'm not going to capitulate to evangelical cultural norms of we have to be this, that or the other. Like, I want to go on trips with you. I want you to wear bikinis. I want to see cleavage on date night. It's just what it is. And I'm not going to apologize for that. And if that offends people, you know, there's a bunch of other content creators out there that you can kind of espouse their ideas. If it offends people, I say blame my mom. The only sex talk my mom ever had with me. This is my favorite. This is a true story. She didn't tell me any like ins and outs. I was like, yeah, I read a book and talk to your pre-marriage counselor. I don't know. Well, to be fair, we got married so young. My God.

22:00 It's true. Not a lot of time. My mom's sex talk with me was, now, you need to make sure you have a sexy vacation wardrobe. that was that was my mom sex talk thank you mom and seriously thank you this is like in the late in the late 90s in a church that like very much prized modesty no one was giving that advice right so modest is not the hottest I just I don't know what to say I don't know if that's you know crude or rude but it's just not um we want to stay sexy and fun and so we do and um I thank you for that And I want, you know, people to look at us in some kind of way. And there's a lot of weaknesses and fallouts and shortcomings. But I want them to be like, yo, Jude and Chelsea can keep it fun and sexy. Like, you know, maybe we could too. When you were talking about the rarity of marriage, I've been surprised how many of our friends in our journey and people who get to live everyday life with us. And as I'm saying this, I'm realizing this is going to sound like such a self compliment because it is.

22:56 But I dug myself in, so I have to say it. But how many people have said, until getting to know you guys and see you guys and see how you interact, I didn't know this kind of marriage actually existed in real life and in the world we live in. And a lot of friends who've said that in different ways. Yeah, I've told me that and it has meant the absolute world to me. And it motivates me on a daily basis to prioritize you and nurture what we have. And the older we get, the more rare it gets. So you're just like, whoa, let's stay in this. And, you know, that's a huge credit to you. I am the emotionally unstable one. I am the one who in a 10-hour day period, I can go from high highs to low lows. And so you've been able to, I guess, get on my roller coaster and roll with me. It's been a ride, baby.

23:49 Oh, man. Man, has it. As we're talking about this, the benefits of marriage, the pastor part of me feels like have to give a disclaimer or at least give a shout out to people who aren't married or who have been divorced or who would love to be married and could feel like, yeah, thanks for rubbing this in my face. Yeah, this episode is insulting. I wish I had what you got. I want to be married. I want to have that companion. I feel, you know, feeling lonely. What would you say to people who were thinking that listening to this conversation right now? Well, my superhero was single. So I got to tell you, you know, the person I talk to the most other than you is wonderful Jesus, Jewish Jesus, who I love and speak to and imagine is his loving face. And then he was single. And so my hero was single. And I believe in the power of singlehood. I believe that single people are complete people, not incomplete.

24:50 And if we're honest, the tradition of Christianity is a little bit skewed. And I don't mean the Bible. I mean tradition. Yeah, called Christian American Evangelical Culture. Christian American Evangelical Culture. We could put a lot of titles with it. I like that. It's kind of like you're not done until you're married. And all the parents raise their kids and say, get married, get married, get married. And who are we to talk? Because we got married when we were, you know, nine years old, but 21. And it is kind of a weird tradition that is not really necessarily biblically accurate at all. That like, you just got to raise your kids, get them married, and then you're done. But nothing could be further from the truth. It's just beginning. I really love what your answer was. And that is that Jesus was single. And there's no way in his singlehood that he was less... Incomplete.

25:41 Incomplete or unfulfilled. The most complete. Or, yeah, any of those things. And that's a great perspective for that. And some of my best friends in the whole wide world are single. Oh, yeah, mine too. And single people make awesome friends, by the way. Awesome friends. And I need to just admit right here on this episode, though, a big apology to some of my single friends because I think I had been the opposite of helpful at times when it comes to various times. I was like, bro, just stay single. You're good. Like, you don't have to deal with golf. You're like, you can come golf with me. This is hard, yeah. I was like, then we can just golf whenever we want. Like, please stay single. And so I just apologize to my single friends. I probably was pretty self-serving there. Yeah. To say the least. I appreciate the honesty. Okay. I have a quiz for you. Oh, I like quizzes. I like giving you quizzes. That's not true. But I like quizzes that you give me. Okay. You are the host of this podcast. I love that you try to say that. So it puts all the work on me.

26:35 I refuse to take that title, by the way. I will happily do the prep, but we are the co-hosts together. Okay. Okay. So a study. We are going to have guests coming up soon. That's exciting. Yeah, so fun. Other than our puppy, yeah. Yeah, our puppy was a great guest. And our kids who interrupted and walked in. That was fun. Oh, that's right. Okay, a study was done. 2000. Bit of an old-ish study, but still good signs. An ancient study was done. An ancient study. The year 2000 is like a different world, but I hear you. Okay, they listed out the three most important elements for lasting and healthy marriages. It was a study on divorce, interestingly. and they were able to look at these things and actually predict divorces, which is very fascinating. But through this, they discovered the three most important elements in a marriage for cultivating a healthy marriage or at least marriages that don't end in divorce.

27:30 Can you guess any of them? How many are there again? Three. Three. I'm going to go with honesty. I'm going to go with compatibility and I am going to go with shared interest well you're 0 for 3 but it's a tough one was this a setup? like this is devastating none of those even come close well okay so one of them is trust which I think goes along with honesty that's like all three of my points which goes along with honesty Compatibility. Transparency. Like, I didn't say transparency. No, you didn't. You said compatibility. Like, I'm trying to give you a win here. Okay. Give me a win. You said compatibility, which could, if you stretch it out, be mutual respect. That's exactly what compatibility is.

28:29 Verbatim. If I was to define compatibility, it would be like mutual respect. Deference. Deference. Things like that. And then the other one is communication. Oh, which is completely what I said when I said transparency. Yep. So pretty much you nailed it. I'm going to say you nailed these. Those are interesting though. Do you agree with them? Say them again. Communication. Okay. Trust. Yep. Mutual respect. I actually do, yeah. Yeah, why is that? Why is that more right than what your guesses were? Mutual respect means a lot to me. And I see that actually as a hopeful trend that I hope picks up steam in our culture, in our world. Desperately, frankly. And we talked about healing marriages can heal the world. That's got to be something that if it can start in marriages, that it can transform the world.

29:25 How would you define mutual respect? a self-awareness that yields to a authentic listening because of the dignity and the value you see in every respective human being I don't know yeah no how would you you're not gonna lie I zoned out on that just for a second Because I started because I knew you were going to. I'm defining the thing that we think could help the world heal. And the response I get from my wife of 24 years on a podcast episode about nurturing marriages. Yo, my B, I zoned out. What was that again? Welcome to my life. Sorry. But to be fair, zoning out on someone who talks as much as I do, it's probably a survival tactic. I don't do it very often, actually.

30:25 I just realized, shoot, he's going to ask me the same thing and I don't think I have a great answer. So that's the reason. Oh, so you were like trying to just. Which is the opposite of mutual respect. By the way, it's like preparing to talk. Well, the opposite. As I talk, all you're doing is preparing to talk. That's the opposite of mutual respect. That's literally the problem I'm on in social media. We're trying to say it at the same time. It's the opposite of good communication. instead of listening, trying to plan your thoughts of what you're going to say to the person who's trying to talk to you. Yeah, my bad. So, um, yeah, some mutual respect. Don't you think so much of it is the grace we give ourselves to give it to your partner? I think how, when, when I mess up, it's like, oh yeah, oh yeah. I, I know I, I didn't make the bed this morning cause blah, blah, blah. But if I walk in and our rule is that whoever's the last person in bed makes the bed. And if, uh, if I break it, I'm like, oh yeah, but it was a crazy morning and I had to get, but if I come in, you didn't make the bed and you were supposed to make it. I can't believe, I don't give you this. It can be so hard to give the other person.

31:22 Yeah, I would agree with that, but I would also disagree. You're assuming that people have self-respect and I think a lot of people don't have self-respect and I think they're so hard on themselves. They actually treat others better than they treat themselves. They might think of themselves more than others, but they think more highly of others than they think of themselves because so much of our world and society and culture and constructs is, is performance based And I think one of the reasons I'm passionate about amplifying this idea of the love of God is because if your base, if your foundation, if your cornerstone is God loves me, you can have self-respect. And when having self-respect, you're able to give others respect. So, I mean, that's kind of my little quick little psychoanalysis on what stems and what the root of. That's so true. And when I think about our kids becoming marrying age, definitely somebody who has self-respect. Or to me, it's another way of saying identity, know who they are and like who they are.

32:17 And that would be really top on my list for what I would love to see in our kids' future responses. Because if you're constantly working from a deficit, by giving someone else respect when you don't give it to yourself, just feels like a complete drain and deflation of you. So it's quite a conundrum, I think. Do you know what another study came out about an important factor of marriage? I love this one. And you're going to love it too. Okay. Like what makes it, what makes a healthy, fun marriage? Yeah. Shared experiences and activities that are positive. Common interest, I think is what I said. Didn't I?

32:54 Did he say that? I said common. She doesn't even remember. Thank God we have producers here helping us so they can remember. I'm going to like play back the like, What's those commercials where they do the play? Oh, the instant replay? Yeah, progressive. Progressive, yeah. I don't know. How are all commercials insurances these days? Like, are they the only people left with advertising money? I got to give them the insurance business. They must be. Because it's either like Liberty. They have so much disposable income to do these ads. Right? These endless ads. Yeah, we could go on a tangent. But it's because sports is what we watch. It's literally Geico, Liberty. Liberty? Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Are we going to get charged for that? I don't know. Or Progressive. So anyway, yeah. The instant replay. Sorry. I said common interest. Yeah. Well, that was, this is a different study. You know, this study, this study was from 2004. So, you know, it's really into these ancient studies. Right.

33:47 Really. But I like, I like that study because I think some developing trust and mutual respect and communication can seem a little overwhelming at times. Like how do we, where do we even get started on that? How do we cultivate that and develop that? That's a great way to start. Whereas cultivating common interests and shared memories and experiences, easy. So true. Go for a drive. Try something new. Take a lesson. I think about our trip that we did this past summer and how bonding it was. Just literally just driving together. What do you think is our most compelling common interest? You and me. I'm being serious. I actually try to think about that myself. genuinely it's probably watching sports whoa i know i've totally been to your desires i really raised you in a lot of ways kind of shaped you yeah it's a little bit yeah that's so weird you can't say that i'm kind of like your daddy like judah we're not doing this on the podcast if you're my daddy then you don't get to sleep with me that's how this marriage works because I don't sleep with my daddy.

34:55 So where are you going to go with that? All right. You made this gross. But let me, I think another thing that we like is trying new things. Is that a common interest? Like trying new things, trying new restaurants, trying new drives, trying new walks. Adventure. You're really good at that. Well, and it's funny. Like if it was watching sports, that's something that you push me in. And if it's, I would say adventure and travel. Adventure, yeah. Adventure and travel. And that's probably something that I've pushed you in in a way that we've adapted to each other that way. It's fun. Well, you grew up with more money than me. So clearly travel is an interesting concept. But if you grew up like me, travel was something we did so that my dad could preach somewhere in your family. Travel is what you did for vacation and enjoyment. And I just want to say thank you for that. Yes.

35:46 Another thing to think, I mean, my parents are getting a lot of- The Smith family, come on. You know, mom, you know it's true. our vacations were actually ministry trips that we call vacation because that's how we got to travel. Where your mom drug you to a mall and a museum. Yeah, that's true. Okay, on the thought of marriage, we are going to the voice memo vault. Ooh, that's cool. Voice memo vault. Okay. If you have questions, send in a voice memo, DM them. What do we have a number that people send it to? Oh my God, what is this, 2002? We have DMs on Instagram. Oh, right. Oh my God. Should we get a hotline while we're at it? I don't know. I need more. This is culture. Are we going to say this? And go to our website at www. Yeah, that's when you had a phone number. Dot in good faith. Actually, do we have an in good faith website? Here we go. Voice vault. Voice memo vault.

36:38 We do not know what these questions are going to be until. That is a fact. Until they get sent to us, which is fine. I mean, obviously our fun team that we get to work with finds ones that go with the topic. So hopefully there's something around the idea of nurturing marriages. Are you ready? Ready. Let's do it. Judah, Chelsea. Okay. My wife and I have been married for eight years now. And honestly, she and I couldn't be more opposite from one another. We have different personalities, different styles, the whole thing. I'm obsessed with her. Over the last eight years, we've had a lot of things that we've enjoyed doing together, activities and hobbies, et cetera. I feel like as we've grown, you know, eight years in now, I think our hobbies have changed and shifted. We want to find something we're doing together that we can enjoy doing together. Have you guys ever navigated something like that? How have you guys navigated finding similar hobbies, activities, et cetera, as you enjoy together? First of all, I'd say well-produced producers to get such a spot-on question for what we were talking about.

37:37 Well, well done. Yeah, wow. And I mean, you and I know nothing about being opposite in personality or interest or any of those. No, we're pretty aligned. That's kind of an irrelevant question. I don't really think we could relate. How about sending good questions? How about that? I'm kidding. That's a great question. Well, I would say that you got to determine who's in charge and I'm in charge. And so I determine where we go and what we do. Your answer? I'm kidding.

38:09 Can I just say... It can be fun to explore. Yeah, be willing to experiment. Yeah. Eight years. Okay, so when we had been married for eight years, it was right around the time we were having Elliot. 2007. Yeah. So, I mean, that was such a unique season for us as far as like, I don't know. I feel like the kids kind of became a hobby. Yeah. But we were really good at date nights. Religious. Actually, more religious than when we are now. Probably because any time away from a newborn and a two-year-old, we were like, that was like... Well, we were on the clock, so to speak. People were getting paid back at the house. So we were like, let's go. This is an expensive outing, but we're going to make the most of it. And so I'm not sure if this couple has kids. But yeah, I don't know. In a way, the question answers itself.

39:02 It's like, have you had that season? What do you do? It's like, man, you just, you kind of explore and you try new stuff. And if I think I'll say, I'll answer it by saying this. I think a mistake that I have made and still make in our marriage is hobbies and things I like to do. And I try to coerce you to be into them too. And that doesn't seem to feel like a common experiment. It seems like you're trying to sell me. It's like I'm trying to sell you a used car on a car lot. And you're like, okay, I get it. I just don't know if I like that. You're like, no, you should, you should, you should. I would kind of disagree with you. Like I was not interested in golf at all before we got married. And I'm still not interested in playing it. But watching golf, I really have come to enjoy. And I don't think I would have been able to enjoy it. Thank you, Bubba Watson. Right.

39:53 I don't think I would have been able to enjoy it so much if you hadn't encouraged me and had the patience to teach me. golf has its own language that makes no sense if you're not a golfer which by the way so many sexual innuendos in the language of golf if you're not a golfer what is what are we talking about oh the worst thing we've ever done in a wedding the worst thing we've ever said oh my word we're doing that right now i don't see why not seems like a pretty good time you want me to tell that story please tell that story because it'll prove my point about how awkward the language of golf is if you don't understand the language of golf. So we were doing a wedding at the university district in Seattle, Washington, where we used to have a campus and we spent a lot of time at UW. Yeah. Huskies. So fun. And, um, we were actually marrying a couple of Huskies, I believe. Yeah. They were, they were both went to UW and we love this couple still do. We were doing, we were doing the wedding together, which we used to do, which was fun. So we, You and I were on stage together.

40:56 Like I did the. So you addressed the groom and I addressed the bride. That was our creative, innovative take on how to do this wedding. Yeah. And don't do a lot of weddings much anymore. But these were the days we did quite a few weddings. There was a stretch. We did a wedding every weekend. It seemed like. So Chelsea addressed the groom. And then my turn came to address the bride. And Chelsea, I think, was sharing like, what is. Something that every wife. every wife dreams of everyone and so I took that and was like man I am gonna tell the bride on her wedding day what every man's fantasy is and this guy was a big golfer and so I thought oh my god this is I thought oh my goodness I say oh my god I don't mean to offend I when I say god it's because I love him so much but I was like oh my goodness and and I um I said to her let me tell you and And at this point, I'm like, I'm kind of feeling it.

41:51 I'm like, we are nailing this. Oh, also context. He was a frat boy. So all of his, remember? Oh, yeah, yeah. So you know how in chapels or whatever, like you'll have like the bride side and the groom side. So the groom side, I'm talking to the bride and the groom side's like right behind her in the auditorium. And I am like talking to her and I can tell the groom side is like, yeah, this is great. This is what everyone is. And a lot of them have never been in church before. So we're like, this is amazing. We're connecting. and so I'm like, let me tell you what every man's fantasy and everyone's like, woo, you know, and I'm like, that is that his wife joins his foursome and when I said that, the whole group behind the bride that I could see, she couldn't see, was like, yeah, like started cheering so now I'm like, it's unbelievable how much I get the people. Like, I just connect with the people and it's true how it was hurting.

42:45 And Zach was like, I think his name was Zach, But he was like, yes, like my wife to golf with me. And I think nothing of it. I'm like, dude, everybody gets that. What a wonderful thing to say that I just said. I'm nailing the ceremony. This is amazing. Fast forward, we're signing the marriage license, which we oftentimes would do right after the ceremony, photos, and then we go to the reception. So I'm signing the marriage license and the bride says to me, pastor, really? And I thought that's interesting. She absolutely did. And she's like, join is awesome. And I was like, what? Oh, oh no. No, that's not what she's like. You think everyone's thinking golf. No one was thinking golf. And I was like, uh-oh. So, but I got to tell you, connected with my audience that day. It really, really did. You sure did.

43:36 How did we get off on this story? Are we going to get in trouble for telling that story? About how patient you were to teach me the lingo of golf. Oh, yeah. Right? um yeah i think it just because it does not make sense the language of golf does not make sense to a non-golfer birdie eagle foursome balls hosel rocket i mean i could go on whoa that was like a really deep golf term that i've never thought of it that way you say it all anyway let's listen to You know what, let's just applaud it otherwise.

44:13 Because you really, okay. You know what, I'm playing the voice memo. Forget it. Hey, guys. Thanks in advance for taking time to listen and answer my question. So my beautiful husband. My husband and I have been married for about seven years now, and I'm a new mom to a wonderful, incredible, amazing baby girl. And my husband and I have noticed that recently we're just having such a tough time connecting with each other. We're not getting along as much as we used to, and we just really so desperately want to get back to that place. And so wondering what your thoughts are on the best way for us to reconnect. connect um we know this is a new normal and a new new way of doing life for us and so just looking for some wisdom on how to get back to that that special place that we had when it was just the two of us thank you so much just the two of us you and i i love that question obviously we we've talked earlier i guess about the rough season for us when we first had zai yeah and yes i can relate a lot to that question. Isn't it amazing that every chapter of the human existence and journey and life, it seems like it's going to be forever. It just seems so permanent. It seems so stuck.

45:28 It seems so like, oh my God, we'll never be what we once were or who we want to be. And we're just, this is it. And, and in reality, and maybe this is how midlife people talk like us, you're like, oh, it'll, that'll be over before you know it. And I think people think in terms of kids are forever. Oh, they're your kids forever. But your proximity to your kids, it is very brief. Yeah. I think in general, over this episode that we've been talking, I really hope that people do get a hope for a season to realize that a season is a season. And no matter what the season is, it will come to an end. It will change. That's our only guarantee about a season. Now, some things are permanent changes and that's very different than a season, such as a new baby is a season um i i don't ever want to pick on somebody's question so this might sound horrible okay or this might be very un-pastoral of me but on the amazing the amazing person who said this and i i completely understand what you're saying and you can say we just we want to go back we want to go back to that connection that we had with the baby before we had a baby and i would probably just love to give some perspective that you're actually never going to go back never and i don't necessarily believe in a life of looking backwards and um and i think just making that mind mind shift um just to go okay we're not actually going to go back to that season that we had was fun before we had kids but that's actually closed instead i would maybe think what are some things in that season that we would love to bring through to the next what are some things that maybe it was a date night maybe it was meaningful conversations maybe it was your sex life that was more creative and spontaneous what were the things about specifically smart about that season that you're missing and then think okay how can we bring that into our season that we have now with this baby because it's actually never going to be the same i really like that is that hope does that mean or hopeless no i i don't know i'm not sure why you put that caveat before i think i'm like yeah you were saying you want to

47:35 go back it's impossible yeah no I mean it just is yeah actually so um no I I love that man if I you know be so practical yeah I guess I would say to that amazing person um that hey listen uh what if you sat down and listed out the things that you miss listed out the things that you feel like have been um evaporated or taken away and then like okay of the 17 things we miss and it might be a lot you know what are what are one two or three of them that you could recover and and and go after together and say hey we're gonna you know we're gonna bring life back into our sex life and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna do it in fun places and here's how we're gonna do it and yeah I think that's that's a really cool takeaway I like that a lot yeah and if I could add one practical thing to that okay that is as a mom especially you are a wife before you're a mom and my perspective, you can push back, you can disagree, but your priority is to be a wife before it is to be a mom and to always have that in mind. Because as you mentioned, kids are not going to be a home forever. And when they leave, you're still going to be a wife and you're still a mom too, but not in the same hands-on, hands-on way. So start practicing that now. If it means getting a babysitter or, you know, swapping maybe with another family. I know babysitters are so expensive these days you know whatever whatever that looks like for you um your child can survive without you and not having a mindset that you're the you're that you're a mom not a savior and being okay to leave your babies to invest in your marriage i think is such a priority perspective to have was that too is that too pushy so good so good can i ask a question that i'm just curious about I know we're coming to a close soon.

49:26 One word answers though. Okay. You're so much better at one word answers than I am. Marriage is only ever now. Life is only ever now. But let's talk about yesterday and let's talk about tomorrow. Okay. Biggest regret about yesterday in our marriage or yesteryears. One word. Worrying. Wow. That's really good. Can I expand on it? well that breaks the game okay never mind keep keep going no no no expand on it all the things i worried about whether they came to pass or whether they didn't some things you worry about do but all of the wasted energy around worrying whether it was over finances over our kids over a fight that we were in it just feels like the biggest waste of emotional energy that i could have spent other places wow it's really good the thing that one word the thing that most excites you about the future of our marriage adventure and i know we talked about that so maybe it was fresh fresh on our mind but i mean life with you in and of itself is such an adventure but but the adventure of the life that we get to continue living together and actually the the unknowns and the unseens and the changes um I get excited about so good um and I love those questions even as we were thinking about you know just what I said earlier about seasons that seasons will change and seasons will come and seasons will go I would love to conclude this episode by praying for people who are in the middle of a season that feels like it's not going to end did you want to ask me the same question I just asked you or do you not want to do that no I do I'll ask you that question and then I'll pray.

51:19 I'm kidding. One word answer. That's what's wrong with marriage. It's like we ask questions, and it's like, okay, when are you going to ask me? Like, if you wanted to answer the question, you could have just said, I'm going to ask myself a question. I actually did not have answers, but while you were talking, I too prepared my answer. Oh, okay. But I was also listening to you at the same time. I believe that. It's called multitasking. It's what makes marriage soar. Science has proven our brains actually cannot multitask. Yeah, that's actually true. Okay, so biggest regret. Fixing. Trying to fix you as if I could. Well said. Excitement about the future. One word. Um... sexual like you go that's sexual adventure yeah sexual adventure uh the unknown together it's two words but that's exciting to me the things that we both don't know about but we're both going to be together to be about it's fun to think about okay we're going to have an unknown but we will have a known with that unknown and that is each other yeah that's exciting to me very exciting love that thanks for wanting to have a future with me yep still i love you so much even though i apparently don't allow you to take speaking engagements yeah super sorry to everyone out there who's invited me to speak thank you um talk to her you know what i mean let's pray do you want to pray oh yeah yeah yeah let's let's pray our son is coming down the stairs now so he can listen to us as we pray i'm gonna pray okay please do okay uh jesus we thank you so much that you know everything and you said that you are the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end and you know the end from the beginning and Father, I pray for everybody listening who feels like they are stuck in a season.

53:23 It feels like an endless season, an endless winter, an endless summer, a season that will not end or will not change. Who can't see what could possibly bring about a change to this season. Jesus, I pray right now you would give hope. I pray that you would give patience. I ask that you would give perspective. and that you would give every person peace, a deep peace in the middle of the season that they find themselves in, that you are with them and that the season will not last forever. And there is beauty on the other side of this season. Not that it doesn't take away the pain of where people find themselves right now, but Lord, I pray that your perspective would give hope and it would give peace. Pray for every person listening right now who needs strength or nourishment or hope in their marriage. And Lord, I ask that that would come from you. Pray that you would drop supernatural faith, hope, scripture into individuals so that they could have hope for the marriage that you want them to have.

54:24 In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. All right, all right, all right. You did it. You did it. You did it. It's the kids, buddy. Oh, yeah, you guys had early. Yeah, hey, we are live on camera here. the whole family's coming to town family's coming to town I love you I love you wanna go with Gray Ray you wanna go with her these kids will do anything Gray Ray you wanna take him