Compassion Vs Codependence

0:01 Hey, welcome to another episode of In Good Faith. I'm so excited to share this episode with you. If you haven't heard, we are resharing some of our most listened to and enjoyed episodes of In Good Faith. And, well, this one is meaningful to me as we talk about compassion versus or codependence in a world that rightfully encourages compassion. How can we remain empathetic to others without becoming codependent? Oh, man, that is the story of my life. I am naturally an empathetic and compassionate person, but oftentimes it leads me to needing to make sure everybody is okay before I take another step or progress one more moment. That can be an incredible obstacle and a challenge in this life.

0:58 So I think you're going to enjoy this episode. It really comes from Chell and I's guts and our own experience and journey in it. So instead of doing another episode on this topic, which I'm sure we will, this one really resonated and I hope you enjoy. Let's get started. Here is the plan today. We're actually going to try to tackle codependency versus compassion. And do they have to be versus? Can we have both of them? Can you be compassionate without being codependent? That's the question I want to ask because let's just say this is my struggle spot in life. Thank you for saying your, but it's also our struggle spot. We found out that this is our struggle spot. Recently, when we went to therapy, we went to an amazing place called Onsite, totally free promo. It was really incredible.

1:52 A weekend of therapy was so great for us. And so we'd been in this group therapy with this amazing therapist for, I think, probably two days. I think this is on the third day, the topic of what is your medicator came up. And that is when we got this intense realization. Well, and I vividly remember turning to what was the most brilliant therapist. Oh, she was amazing. The grandma you wish you had, although my grandmas are all in heaven, so I can say that. Well, I have two grandmothers, if you don't mind me saying so. So I will say that, yeah. But this is like a third grandmother. And I looked at this incredible woman and with the sweetest eyes. And I said, well, what do you think my medicators are? Because she's talking about, you know, a lot of the things that you typically think of, whether it's drugs or sex, which we enjoy together, but not with other people as a medicator. Or, you know, a lot of people turn to porn to just turn your brain off. And those things that you can just escape into that really do numb all your other senses.

2:49 And you were just lost in these things. I raised my hand. I was like, oh, is Netflix a medicator? We're trying to dig through our hearts to see. I think we went into this weekend thinking medicators were these sinister, dark, evil, wicked things in our lives. Sinister, sinful things, actually. Yeah, only to realize, no, everyone needs escape. Everyone needs a level of medication. And we don't actually mean just medicine, but there's medicine for our soul. It can be sunshine. It can be fresh air. We all need them. And it doesn't mean that you're a bad person if you have medicators. And I think that probably is a good place to start as well today. Hey, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I don't need this. I don't have medicators. Well, denial might be your medicator. But like we all have them. Kind of like it was ours when we were in that therapy moment. Completely. But I looked at the sweetest eyes, right, of this amazing therapist. And I said, what's my medicators?

3:44 And she's like, oh, sweetie, you don't know? And I'm like, and I'm preparing myself for like the classic, typical, scary medicators. And for those of you that are people of faith and faith communities everywhere, it's always like drugs, alcohol, and rock and roll. And so I'm like, I'm waiting for the classic medicator. And she's like, it's codependency. It's like codependency all over you. And I raised my hand with two things. I said, first, can you give me a definition of codependency? Because it's a word that I've heard so often. once she gave the definition of codependency. And she said, basically the definition is I can't be happy until you're happy. Yeah, I'm not okay till you're okay. And I was like, oh, that's perfect because I have boundaries. I don't need people to be pleased or whatever. And so I said, so I think, I definitely know that's Judah, you know, good wife throwing your husband under the bus in therapy. I said, well, I definitely know that's Judah, but I don't think I have that problem.

4:37 And then she turned her sweet eyes towards me and said, oh no, sweetie, the way that you take care of your husband and make sure he needs to be okay, you're definitely codependent too. We got a lot to unpack here today. That's the bottom line. But I always thought I was the only person who had an unhealthy connection to people sometimes. But when she gave us the definition of codependency, I was like, oh, that's our line of work in a nutshell. I'm not okay until people are okay. I'm like, isn't that what pastors do? Yeah. And I think that's what really hit us is we thought we were being compassionate when really we were being codependent. There it is. And so that leads us to the conversation we want to have today. Is it possible for compassion to exist without codependence? And the reason this is so important to talk about is because we're actually in such an intersection right now in humanity where we're calling everyone to be more compassionate. it. Probably maybe if there is a positive takeaway in cancel culture, it's like, well, maybe it's just our attempt to make everybody aware of each other and love each other better and not be so rude and crude and mean. So we're in kind of across different countries and continents, we're calling for compassion, but do we know what it is?

5:51 And I don't think it's just cancel culture that's brought it on. If I think about the way our parents grew up compared to the way we grew up. My parents had to wait to watch the news until seven o'clock in the evening after dinner, after they had done their full work day and came home and made dinner. That is literally like another universe. Right? And had family dinner. And then they would kind of sit around and turn the news on and see what was happening in the world. That's not the world we live in. We live in where any disaster that happens, and I think there's beauty to it, right? Because we can pray, we can respond, we can care. All of these things that happen so quickly can be beautiful, but sometimes we can have compassion overload or compassion can turn into codependence. before we get in i want to talk about the definition of compassion because i think it's a word that we use a lot that maybe isn't always clearly defined um by the way compassion overload What a great statement.

6:59 I mean, that could be the whole theme of the podcast today. Like, do you have compassion overload? So, so brilliant. So excited to talk about this. But let me give you our favorite definition of compassion so far. Yeah. I really do think it is. And here it is. Compassion is sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it. One more time, I'm going to say it. The easiest definition to actually find on your phone, but it's the best. I love it. Compassion is, again, sympathetic consciousness of others' distress, together with a desire to alleviate it. Wow. And so when we are living in a world where we are constantly conscious, which is a word I can't say, but I'm going to keep saying it. Oh, you said it great. Yes, I did it. Crush it. When we're constantly conscious of the distress that's happening in the world, I think you and I found ourselves codependent. And we thought we were doing the right thing by being so aware of the pain of people in the world around us and feeling like it just had to constantly bombard us.

8:01 Yeah, I mean, there was a couple of weeks there in my life recently in the history of our country and the social unrest of our country and seeing again and again and again images and videos of profound and atrocious injustices in our country, particularly against black and brown people in our country. It was just all too much to bear. And I kind of lost a lot of functionality for a couple of weeks. I think you were kind of not knowing what to do with me. I wasn't being— Actually called your mom for help. You know it's bad when your wife is calling your mom when you're 42. But it was boundaryless compassion. It was an overwhelming distress. together with the desire to fix everyone.

8:57 And I started to find myself getting angry at people. If you remember, we were on the beach at one point and someone drove by and kind of asked one of our kids to get out of the bike path. Oh my gosh, yes. Do you remember that? Yes. And I just started yelling back. The whole family just looked at me and I'm like yelling like, you get out of the way. You know, and I'm like defending my daughter who happened to be in the bike path, which it really wasn't too much for the guy on the bike, on the path made for bikes, to ask for my daughter to get out of the way so he didn't crash. But I was just- He didn't even cuss at her or anything. No, no. Actually, he was urgently asking her to get out of the way because- To protect her, yeah. To protect her and protect himself, rightfully so. And I just lost it. And by the way, he was kind of a ways away and I think I was still yelling like, you know, leave her alone. And I remember kind of when I got done yelling like looking at our family and like Zion, Elliot, our 17 year old, 15 year old, 12 year old, are just kind of standing there looking at me like, you're not okay, dad.

10:00 But we love you so much. Yeah, thank you. I did ask for forgiveness of the fam, but we're hoping of course, by telling some of these stories that maybe you're like, man, I can kind of relate a little bit to that. So how do we find true actual compassion and not become overwhelmed, codependent, angry, agitated people? I really believe it's possible. But I think we have to get rid of the codependency so we can have true compassion without having compassion overload. Because if we are living a life that says, which is codependency, which says, I'm not okay unless you're okay. And we're constantly and continually seeing the brokenness in the world around us. Then do you know what that means? I'm never going to be okay. Because the truth is, this world is never going to be okay. Perfectly okay. And we're going to live our lives to make it better and make a difference and try to fix it. But the more we see of the world, the more we see of its brokenness and the hurting of humanity that is caused by so many different things that we're not getting into today.

11:01 But if we have a problem with codependency, then we're never going to be okay. Because codependency by definition is boundaryless living. It's literally just you have no boundaries. So as many people that have problems, you always have a problem. And I think for us as faith community leaders, we just started taking in, particularly during this extended season, we're all spending a lot more time at home considering the well-being of others, the health of others, the physical state of others. we, I, I should say, really started to embrace this boundary-less life. And like I said, I talk about these two weeks where it was really acute, but the truth is it was a lot longer than that. And both of you and I went to Nashville, Tennessee to go to therapy for a reason. And so that's why when the definition of codependency came up in that therapy, I thought, well, I don't have that problem because I don't have a problem saying no.

12:02 If I get invited to a baby shower or an event or a party, and it's not going to be good for our kids or good for my health or whatever, I don't have a problem saying no to those things. Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the voice of an incredible woman who has never had FOMO a day in her life. I mean, I could be on the moon with Elon Musk and FaceTiming my wife, and she'd be like, I am so glad I'm not there. And I'm just like, oh, all right. But for me, realizing there's so many things happening in the world, there's so many things out of me. Like, I can't be happy until the world is happy. I turned that into control. And I turned that into controlling the environment of our home, but also into controlling you, which I apologize for in therapy. And we did that. I feel very controlled. Like, I can't fix the problems of the world. I can't fix all of these things happening, but I can make sure my home is put together and I can make sure my husband is following all the rules and staying put together. And so that was how my codependency manifested itself.

13:01 By the way, some of these rules are such as everything is picked up before we go to bed. And sometimes I'm just like, I just want to go to bed. We're getting off topic here, but that'd be a rule we could change maybe later on a different podcast. I can't really sleep if the house isn't picked up. I mean, everything has to be picked up, but that's another podcast for another day. So yeah, we found ourselves in this space realizing we have codependency, But I think what we really struggled with was we thought our codependency was spiritual. We thought it was compassionate. We thought it was being what God had asked us to do, which is loving and caring for your neighbor. And we thought, oh, we're doing the right thing by just taking on the weight of this world and living this boundaryless life or controlling everything. We thought it was the right spiritual, godly thing. Absolutely. I felt like the moments I was okay were somehow wrong. And I remember feeling deeply when we were having these extraordinary, fun, relaxing minutes and moments in our day, why people are suffering and dying and wrongfully incarcerated or killed in the streets of our country.

14:16 I felt an overwhelming sense of guilt. I mean, truly and deeply. And I think started to kind of verbalize that and almost started to maybe wear that feeling like a badge. Like, I'm glad I feel guilty. I should feel guilty. I should feel bad for enjoying this breakfast with our family. But that produced nothing healthy in our soul. And you think it's doing the right thing, but realizing it actually does have a negative impact on our relationships and the people that we love the most. I remember her, the therapist saying one of the most devastating things you can say to our kids is, oh, the only thing I want in life is for you to be happy. I'm not happy until you're happy. And all of a sudden that puts the burden of responsibility for our, our happiness onto our children and our kids weren't made to carry our happiness. Also our friends were not made to carry our happiness. Our parents, our siblings, our coworkers, we're not made to carry their happiness. Faith community members. And vice versa. You and I, even though we're pastors, even though we love people, we are not paid. We are not paid to it. We are not made to carry the responsibility of the happiness of the people around us. And I don't think we had realized how twisted our thinking had become until that moment. Yeah. I felt like it had become a bunch of wires or if you're like me, my backpack always gets all the different chargers that I try to keep track of and all the wires and you reach into your backpack and you're like, oh my word, I can't untangle more charger cords. But I think that's how I felt internally. I was like, boy, we've got these cords all wound up. And I just felt like we were becoming untied in Nashville. It's like things were getting clearer and we were able to identify like, well, this has gotten convoluted and codependent. And it's amazing because I think one of the badges we wear as human beings is like, I'm going to hurt myself to help others. But boy, that's selfish. And I know that's a really hard

16:26 thing to hear maybe on this podcast, but this idea of hurting yourself to help others actually won't move humanity forward. Because we think that our hurt is going to heal the hurt we see in others, but it really doesn't. Now we just have multiple people hurting. But now that we're a few months past that, how would you answer this question? Is it possible to be compassionate without being codependent? I have to believe that it is. And of course, our hero and our model is a real historical figure that lived and we believe lives, but the person of Jesus and his compassion is seen over and over in his three-year public ministry that's recorded in some detail in what is known as the New Testament, the ancient scriptures, and watching him being moved.

17:21 Yeah. So often it says Jesus was moved with compassion and then moved towards the pain of people. But then, you know, you run into these portions where these beautiful Greek people show up out of towners, if you will, to see if they can catch a quick meeting with Jesus. And a couple of the 12 guys that rode with Jesus for three years, they come and they're like, hey, Jesus, there's some Greek people that want to see you. And he says, tell them no. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, what? Jesus, who was moved with compassion, the embodiment of compassion said no? It's like, bro, you know, not that we call Jesus bro, but it's like, man, wait, you're the people guy. Like, you can't say no to people because you're the people guy. And the scripture indicates that the reason he said no is because he was thinking of the greater good. He was also thinking like he was going to need his strength and energy to go to Jerusalem and to go through this horrific act of sacrifice on behalf of the Greeks and humanity.

18:19 And so if Jesus had boundaries, how much more do we need boundaries? I mean, that's how we see it, you know, because Jesus is our model. There's so many people listening where the model for you is not Jesus, but consider the different models you have. And I think the ideal models are models with boundaries. Yeah, it's so good because the models and the people with boundaries can sustain it and they can keep living a compassionate life for the rest of their life. It's interesting you brought up that story of Jesus telling no to the Greeks. I actually thought about the story of the Good Samaritan in the Bible, which is right when Jesus said, hey, love your neighbor as yourself. And there was a man who's like, yeah, but who is my neighbor? He's like, I don't really want to have to love my neighbor, which a lot of people are in that state too. And Jesus told the story that's known today as the Good Samaritan, which is basically a person came and he saw this man who had been beaten laying by the side of the road.

19:11 And even though they were of different ethnic groups where there would have been ethnic tension between them, the man- More than tension, but yeah, to say the least. Right. The man came and picked up the man who had been beaten and robbed, put him on his donkey, poured his oil on him, which was the healing balm of the day, took him to an inn, gave the innkeeper his money and said, take care of him. And whatever is lacking, I'm going to come pay. So in other words, whatever is needed for this man to be healed, I will pay for it. And I was Christians so often growing up, I'd hear that story and think, okay, well, that means I have to do whatever it takes to heal the people around me. That means no boundaries. That means compassion, especially as a pastor. But if we think about it, what did that man do who was the representation that Jesus gave us? He actually took him to an inn. He didn't take him to his house. He didn't take him and kick his kids out of their bed or take him into his, kick his wife out of the bed. He took him to a place where he could get cared for while this man could still have his boundaries.

20:08 And go do the business that he was appointed to, his job. But he said he would check in, in other words, right? Yep. And so I think in both of those examples that we're looking for from the Bible, it's like, how did we make it 40 years in life with thinking we're being compassionate, but really we were just being codependent and we weren't able to set up the boundaries that Jesus set up. And we weren't able to set up the boundaries even that Jesus showed us in that story of the Good Samaritan to say, no, you don't have to do everything. You don't have to be a savior. And one of the, I know you hate it when I say dirty little secret, but one of the dirty little secrets in this effort to be a compassionate human being is that if you do it without boundaries, you set people up for false expectations because you say, hey, come to me anytime, anywhere, any place, doesn't matter, I'll help you drop everything. And as you start down that pathway with another human being, you set them up for failure because we're gonna let each other down.

21:06 But when you set up a connection, a friendship, a relationship with someone that has no boundaries, The moment you set those boundaries, it's as if you're cutting them off. It's as if you're saying, I reject you. I don't love you because you didn't set expectations at the outset. And I think you, more than anyone in the whole wide world, babe, have taught me about setting expectations in your relationships. And I think Jesus did that as well. You mean as soon as I give anybody my phone number, I let them know, hey, I'm the world's worst texter. I don't get back to you. My range is like three days for text messages. But I say that to set expectations because I don't want to hurt people's feelings when I don't text back immediately. Because I realize my standard is a lot. Most people have like a 20-minute standard for responding to text messages. A two-minute standard, I think, is actually the running rate right now. And mine is like three days.

21:59 But I do try to let people know that up front. Because I do think setting expectations is really helpful. Well, setting expectation is a boundary. It's just setting a boundary. It's like, hey, here's my line and this is what it is. And we're spider webbing here for sure. But I had a real sage in my life who's, I think, in his 70s now say, your no is going to be way more important now at the stage you're in than your yes. You've got to learn to say no. And, boy, I started to think, well, in what stage of life is no, maybe not more important than yes? Like, it's just really important, particularly in the technological boom that we find ourselves in, to say no. And because we are so infiltrated, if you will, by anyone and everyone we know via technology. We've got to set boundaries. Well, and I think one of the people groups that can fall victim to this the most easily is moms. and maybe all parents, but I can speak specifically to moms because that's the side of parenting that I know, that we think being a good mom means running ourselves ragged for the sake of our kids, taking them to soccer, ballet, basketball, football, tennis, art. And before we know it, we have our family's schedules jam-packed with things for everybody else. But as a mom, there isn't any time for self-care. And I know that can be such a buzzword as well as, as well as, you know, me time or all those things.

23:25 But it really, the same way that Jesus realized he had to say no to those people so he could save his strength to go to the cross and fulfill his mission as parents. We still need to say no to our kids sometimes, say no to their activities, say no for reasons only that, sorry, I don't have the energy to drive you right now. And I actually just need to sit down and watch a show right now. And it's interesting because in the moment, when you look on the face of your children, which again, we have a 17, almost 15 and 12 year old, it's totally dejecting because they look at you like, well, then what are you? Are you not my mom? I didn't ask you to go to the strip club, mom. I asked you to go to the soccer field. And you're like, yeah, still son, I can't take you right now. And I think what that builds is once again, healthy expectations. And it actually prepares your kids, maybe not for childhood, but it certainly prepares them for adulthood, which is kind of the goal of parenting. And in that moment, when they're disappointed, for us as a parent to say, I know you're disappointed right now, but I'm still going to be happy. My happiness isn't based, I'm not trying to regulate your emotions. You can go do that by yourself and you can learn that lesson because that is part of life and growing up.

24:42 And being disappointed is not a bad emotion. It's okay to admit that. And we've, we're trying to learn as parents, by the way. And again, now we've kind of dipped our toes into parenting here, bear with us. But I think acknowledging disappointment in your kids and saying, it's okay. It's okay for you to just be disappointed for a little bit. Now, if that turns into selfishness or you start turning on your, you know, saying mean things to your parents or your fellow brother or sister, well, you know, then we step in, but disappointment's okay. Yeah. And if that's the healthiest thing for our children, that's the healthiest thing for our community, if that's the healthiest thing for our group of friends, then it also has to be the healthiest thing for the world. For us to realize, no, you know what? I need to have boundaries. I need to not be codependent. I need to be okay, even when you're not okay. Yeah. For me, honestly, it really is a superhero syndrome. And I think maybe that's just the ego in me, but I think that superhero syndrome, maybe it is the inundation of all of the incredible empires of superhero movies, all of the massive- Why are those the only movies coming out this summer?

25:49 I'm like, can't we just get a good drama in there? A nice rom-com? I'm so over the superhero movies. And I think it's because it's in all of us. We want to be our own superhero. We just do. We want a superhero and we want to be the superhero. And I'm not sure if that's totally bad and wrong. It's just that we're not. And there's got to be a day where we go, I don't wear a cape. And even the one that I try to wear, it's not sustainable. and I need to nap. I need to rest. I need some alone time. I need to turn off my phone. And being okay with that is a big part of what we're talking about today.

26:25 so as we can conclude this conversation we're gonna do a couple things we want to give a practice and then you're going to give a prayer when you feel inundated with things in the world you know whether it is something that's happening in the news something that's happening in the life of a friend, of a friend, and you feel like that emotion come up that feels like, I can't be happy right now because this is going on, to actually just stop, take a deep breath, and then ask a question of the Spirit of Jesus if you believe He lives inside of you. If not, you have a conscience that lives inside of you, whatever that inner voice is to you. Just stop and ask a question and say, am I supposed to do anything about this right now? And if you are, if it's saying a prayer, then say a prayer. If it's sending a text to a friend and encouraging, send them that text.

27:29 Whatever, if you're supposed to do something in that moment, do it. And if you don't feel like you know anything to do, then actually just let it go. And then you can keep being okay, even though there is something in the world that's not okay. And that doesn't mean you're lacking compassion. And if you start to feel guilty, remind yourself about the story of Jesus or the story of the good Samaritan who set up healthy boundaries and realize you can be okay. Yeah, I love what you're saying. And I'm hearing this for the first time here on the podcast while you're saying it. And so my responses are very much in real time. It strikes a chord for sure. Man, I think what I'm reminded of is the ancient proverb that says, you know, man seems to be caught up with plans and God seems to be caught up with steps. It actually says man plans his way, the Lord directs their steps. But it's like from God's vantage point, he's into just these simple steps we take. From our vantage point, we're into these grand plans of how we are going to change continents and countries. And thank God you're planning to change the world.

28:35 That's amazing. But back to today, right now, in the moment you're listening to this podcast, talk about boundaries, talk about sustainability, talk about being realistic, is what's the step you can take? And as simple as it sounds, this is kind of embarrassing to admit, this podcast is a step we're taking. I mean, it just is. We've decided to turn on the mics and start what we're calling In Good Faith. And Chelsea and I are doing it together. And this is a step that we think we can do to maybe help you, the listener, in your journey. Well, what's a step? You know, we're making big plans. We are. We're trying to make big plans, but big plans can't be lived out in a day. But every day you can take a few steps. And so what's the step you can take? And in a way, that's what you're saying, right? Yeah, just stop, take a beat, take a breath, and just ask yourself, is there a step to take?

29:31 And if not, if there is, take it, do it. If there's not, actually let it go and be okay being okay, even though you're aware of a new pain that's happening in the world. In that moment where you're made aware of pain or you're made aware that a friend is disappointed or your kids are disappointed or there's something hard in the world, that that's the moment you take a breath, take a bead and just ask yourself, ask the spirit of Jesus living inside of you, do I need to do anything about that? And if you are, do it. And if not, let it go and be okay being happy. I think that's important. I think we're giving people license in our little way to put a pin in it and say, hey, I'm going to think about that. And today's not the day to act on that. But I'm going to wait on that. And I'm going to think about that. And then there are other things where it's like, okay, I can do something today. And I guess that's kind of what I was, that the flip side is when you feel like you should do something, what do you do?

30:30 And I could say for my day, I mean, you know how much I text, but I think oftentimes the manageable, realistic steps that I take in terms of compassion rather than codependency is taking time. One of my favorite daily practices, and I don't know if this is codependent or compassionate, I think it's compassionate. So I'm going to risk saying this is I love to be prayerful at some point during my day. Just turn my thoughts to God, share some of my concerns with him, share maybe how frustrated I am with my wife. I'm kidding. Come on. She's so controlling.

31:07 But I kind of just people pop into my head, if I'm honest. I had a friend named Jim today pop into my head and I sent him a text. Tomorrow's his birthday. Stuff like that. And it's like, you know, I used to underplay those. I used to be like, well, you're a pastor, buddy. Like you should be doing more than texting people. But I realized like, I think it could be an important step of just letting my friend know that you're on my mind today. And oftentimes it turns into like a three minute text exchange. That's real brief, but it's like, whoa, that's wild. You thought of me. I'm actually like right now, I'm, um, to be completely honest. Uh, I had a friend reach out today who's doing a bone marrow transplant. I didn't even tell you about this. He's a friend that lives in Mexico. And he said, you may not know this, but my brother has stage three leukemia. And I didn't know that either. And I know his brother. And he said, today is the day.

32:00 I'm a perfect match. They're going to take bone marrow to give to my brother. And I text him in all caps, like I do, and said, bro, I had no idea. But I didn't feel bad for not knowing. He's informing me. It's okay. He's informing me today. And I told him, I love you. And I'm saying a prayer with you right now. Okay. And talk about progress from our going back to our therapy retreat a few months ago. If that would have happened in the past, you would have felt guilty for not doing enough. You would have, and that would have affected me. It would have affected your mood and our relationship with the kids. So I actually think it's pretty amazing that I didn't know that that happened, that you were willing to be compassionate in that moment, but not be codependent. You did it. I did. You know, listen, we kind of set this podcast up today so that you would all know that I do this. No, but it's funny you say that because you're right. My old kind of version of approach would have been like, tell you immediately. And because I'm such a feeler, I would wait for you to be like, oh, because then I would know you would care.

32:59 But you know what? I wasn't going to tell you. And I hope that's okay if my friend hears this because that's not for you to carry today. Yeah. You know, we've got more to do today. Except you just didn't tell me. I did. I did. Fair enough. Fair enough. But, and that's a weird thing for me to say out loud, that there are some things that like, as your husband, I can just, I can be compassionate about, and I don't always have to place on you or share with you. And that's something we're learning as well. And that can translate to kids, friends, extended family. I love that. Were you going to pray for us? Should we do a guided prayer or should I just pray? Just pray. Okay. you should see the way she just looked at me it was literally like get on with it she's not controlling at all guys she's not controlling at all there we go okay i am gonna pray you know whatever you believe about prayer by the way um