Embracing a New Chapter: Parenting Adult Children

0:02 Okay, something happened to us this past holiday season that has not happened to us for 20 years. Yep. You know what I'm about to say? Yep. Whatever we're talking about? Yep. Take it away. What happened? For the first time, we didn't have all three of our kids at the holidays. And so this Thanksgiving, we were missing our oldest, who was on set today. This is our kitchen, but on set. Our 19-year-old had to stay back and work on his job. had to work it was such a moment for me as a parent because i'm so proud of him that he has a job that he's faithful to it i mean i don't want to brag but he's been promoted to shift manager um and that he's he's responsible but at the same time it was a little gut-wrenching yeah i'm pretty sure i suggested that i pay him the same amount that he was gonna make his job i was like well i'll just pay you and then you can just come to thanksgiving but he's uh he's he's a good man he's my son that he didn't that he didn't take us up on it yeah it's so our season of parenting is very unique right now and i just cannot even quantify how quickly our season changed it i feel like we had toddlers yesterday i felt like we were like talking about what it's like to to discipline and to train them and to shape their identity blah blah blah and here we are. Our topic today is adult children, is what it's like becoming parents of adult children.

1:31 Obviously, our oldest son is 19. He graduated this past year. So this is his first year out of high school. He is still living at home, working a job and a half, and has a girlfriend who he's been dating for a year who I really like. I think she's just a great girl. So that's our oldest son. Our second son is 17, junior in high school, just turned 17. And our baby girl is 14, a freshman in high school. So we are just at the very beginning of this transition to adult children, which I think makes for a perfect time to talk about it because it is so fresh and real. And if just in case anybody saw the title of this episode, I'm like, oh, I would love to learn how to do that. This is not a how to be a parent of adult children. It's here's the thoughts that we are thinking as we move into this season. Yeah. And it's, um, the word humiliated comes to mind and that's probably the wrong usage, but, but maybe it's more authentic. It's, I think there is a, a deep humbling in the process of recognizing as your kids get older, you are reminded of your weaknesses. You're reminded of things you didn't do great. Just as they got older. I was like, cause I was reminded of that like all throughout my parenting career. Yeah. But meaning like as they get older, they can, they can communicate it to you. They'll say it to you. You know, like they're like now aware they've been out in the world enough to know like, oh, my parents weren't good at that. Or, oh, we didn't really take enough time to talk about that. And you're like, oh yeah, I could, I would try to remember everything to talk about, but yeah, you know, and, and, and those are humiliating moments where as a parent, and I, I'm sure people who see this title, I don't know if we put the titles up on the podcast, but are like, oh, that'll be great. But it's not, it's not great. There's nothing really great about it other than you love these humans with all your heart. And it's such a privilege to be their parents, but you know, you got to buckle your seatbelts and prepare for the chapter that we You are in, here's a chapter of going, oh my word, so much of what we thought was like

3:41 pretty good parenting. You're like, oh wow, it had some things missing and some deficiencies. And that's, I guess, very private and personal to share. Yeah, but don't sell ourselves short. I mean, I think I'm a pretty level-headed person probably until it comes to my kids. And I'm absolutely a biased mom. I think our kids are just the best in the whole world. And I like who they are as humans. So do I. So, I mean, I hope every parent is that way maybe. I think I'm realistic about our kids. Well, I didn't think we were discussing. My comments were not on how our kids are and how much we love them. It's how we are. And I think as parents in this title is embracing a new chapter. And it's all great and all and embracing this chapter. But the embracing of it can be difficult because you're reminded of a lot of the things you didn't do totally right. wow I don't feel that way I don't feel reminded of the things we haven't done right maybe that's just me I looked at our insurance coverage today with our oldest and I was like uh oh I don't know I just think they're yeah that's how it feels for me when I hear you talk about embracing this new chapter and parenting adult children it seems uh not in a bad way but in a good way just kind of like wow yeah i i uh didn't keep the ball in the air the whole time i did drop the ball at times and that's how i feel yeah but i think you're an amazing dad and you have been all the way along and nobody expects perfection and yeah i mean i'm way more of a perfectionist than you are but yeah i look at the balls we've dropped in that yeah but i mean our goal we've said this so often in raising kids is actually that we're not raising kids we are trying to raise adults we are raising children humans who we know who are going to be adults and that was our theme that was our thing we say that we'd say that often hey how is this going to affect their adulthood we would talk to them about things it was hey we're telling you this now because when you're an adult it will matter because xyz and so we talked about maybe our standard was really low but like yeah we want to raise adults who are contributing citizens who are respectful who

5:46 love jesus and love other people i mean that was pretty much our standard yeah totally and so far i'd say we're one for one yeah with adult with adult kids he's a contributing starting to feel a lot better right um no the emotions for me in this season gosh you're so good they've been way more selfish they've been way more just feeling the loss of an amount there's a puppy a loss of an amazing season that was of raising children that was us raising them and now realizing we are not raising our son anymore we are consultants to our son we are counselors to our son but we are not raising him in the same way anymore and i agree and that means you don't have control over him anymore like saying you have to come to thanksgiving like yeah i tried i know i like you tried to bribe him i tried like please we're gonna be so sad i probably tried a little bit of emotional manipulation. All the things, all the things that we resort to. Um, yeah, it is emotional. And I, I guess I'd be hoping for listeners or people who are going through this or about to go through to have, have gone through it to take a moment to even acknowledge and communicate with your spouse, which obviously this is the first time you and I are doing it, by the way, it's been such a busy week. I'm really happy to be sitting here talking with you yeah um yeah i just arrived before these cameras got turned on from a meeting this morning and i'm like oh man yeah it's gonna at least we know if we keep this podcast going we will have meaningful conversations right now and again and at least we know for sure now that you actually do go attend your meetings with four buttons unbuttoned so stop i can't i was in a meeting i did notice a few people like looking down i was like what are you looking at I was like, oh, man.

7:40 You did the whole meeting with your shirt unbuttoned that well. That low. Yeah. I am an integrated man. I am consistent in all settings. Yeah, I don't even think about it. I think I have so much chest hair, I don't even feel the open air. You don't even feel the breeze? No, I'm numb to it. Speaking of chest hair, our 17-year-old is getting so much chest hair. So much hair. Speaking of adult children and hair. So much body hair. We won't get into the details. So I'm glad to sit around and talk about the emotions of raising adult kids because it is emotional. And I think there are probably moments in these last few months where you and I are feeling emotions about this change that probably come out in other ways. Yeah. And I don't think that's totally the healthiest. Yeah, probably not. Yeah, I totally agree.

8:33 But I'm excited. I'm excited to dig in and get into this. And I hope that we share some concepts and ideas and stuff that translates to a lot of individuals out there. Okay, so this is going to surprise you. Or families. I asked Zion, who is our 19-year-old son. I said, okay, what is the best thing we've done and the worst thing that we've done? You did? Uh-huh. Trying to prep for this podcast. He just happened to walk down. I was like, oh, I may as well ask him. Interesting. He didn't have a worst. What do you mean? I said, no, not in parenting, but in this transition season of transitioning him. in this chapter transitioning him into adulthood really yeah which normally he'd be the kid who'd be like oh gosh this and that and um you know he's not one to just say nice things for the sake of yeah saying nice things so he didn't he didn't have a worse oh that's exciting right isn't that good i love that um so he didn't have a worse but he did have a best what was it it was you know it's been really great that you guys and obviously he's still living at home but this would be very different if we'd moved him off to college. I would have been a wreck.

9:36 He's still living at home working a job and paying rent and trying to adult in this season of life. He said, it's been great that your guys' expectations for me have adjusted. You don't expect me to be at family dinner anymore and even with Thanksgiving, you know that I'm now trying to live my own life and carry my own responsibilities and that you guys have been okay with that. well I feel so encouraged thank you yeah it's amazing I love that it's amazing and one of the things I think we did do right was right after he graduated high school we sat him down we gave him his graduation present and then we just had an open communication of hey Zai you're about to be an adult and because you're not going off to college you're you're going to still be living at home because rent in the places we live is extremely expensive and we want you to be able to save money and get ahead on life. Good night. Don't waste money at brown rent when you can live at home where we still pay for groceries and shampoo and body wash and stuff like that. Yeah.

10:36 So, so there is that. And, but we had a great conversation. If you remember sitting outside on that, on that patio, that coffee shop and yeah. And one of the things that I always think that you've been so good at in parenting that was exemplified here is being honest with our kids about where we're at and not putting up a fake facade of that we know everything and that we have it all together and that we are perfect, but communicating that. And you remember that conversation? We just, we said, Hey, what are, let's talk about expectations now that you are a graduate living at home. What's that going to look like? Yeah. You remember that? Yeah, it was very meaningful. I mean, again, it's also, uh, you know, the, the, the vulnerability that comes with this chapter of parenting is wild because you don't know exactly what's going to be said. And I also think that our candor was motivated probably by this idea that, you know, even your own children relate more to your weaknesses than your strengths. And I felt like if we could continue in each particular successive chapter, show them our weaknesses, that there would be a bonding almost. They'd be like, oh, well, if dad and mom are willing to share, then I'll share mind and whatever it is that we're facing, whatever it is that we're going through, we can do it together.

11:55 I can feel safe here. I can come and bring my full self. I can put my weaknesses on the table. And we definitely, you know, there was some intentionality around that because we wanted that chapter of his life, which is well and truly begun. We wanted it to begin that way. That's such a good point because truly one of our desires for this chapter in our relationship with our oldest son is that he would still keep coming to us for advice. Like that is a dream of parents of, you know, this, I don't even know what it's called. Young adulthood. Yeah. Early adulthood. Early adulthood. Young adulthood. 18 to 22 is that we want our children to still come to us for advice. Yeah. That we aren't in a position, hopefully we have done it well, where we aren't sitting around still telling them what to do, but that we have walked out the relationship in such a way that they could still come to us and ask questions. And I hadn't thought about it the way you just said it, which is so potent and powerful that if we're willing to share our weaknesses and maybe things that we don't know and things that are confusing to us, that that could cultivate a relationship with our son where he feels like he can come to us and say, Hey, I don't know about this. What do you think about that? What's, what's going on here is a really amazing results of that willingness. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the reasons Zion is doing that, or hopefully our other kids will as well, is I think you're very tactile, very much a problem solver. But with that propensity and with that capacity, you've yielded it and wielded it wisely.

13:30 You've not just given answers. Even though I can look at you and go, I think she knows exactly in three steps how to fix this for this person, but you've been willing to resist that urge and just listen and process with them. And by the way, that's development, right? I mean, this chapter, you're trying to raise an adult, not a kid, a kid, you tell them what to do. An adult, you listen and you strategize and you add strategy to the conversation. Well, what do you think? And what's your inkling? What's your instincts telling you? And I mean, if I could be so bold, I feel like in a lot of ways that's how our heavenly father functions you know there's this there's this back and forth there's this interaction and relationship and i think a lot of the errors that are that are done is parents get really stuck stuck and stuck um kind of their their their only role which is a very necessary role in a particular chapter is you tell them what to do you force them what to do oh my gosh you pick them up and you tell them i mean yeah i mean it's And it gets pretty, we have to admit as parents, it gets very habit.

14:37 It becomes very habitual. It's like, I'm just going to pick them up. And just because they turn 19 and graduate high school, those urges don't go away. But you suddenly are like, oh, wait, I can't just pick them up. And like you said, which I appreciate Zion saying. But yeah, you just want to be like, oh, no, no, no, just come on Thanksgiving. We'll just work it out. We'll make it work. Like you want to pick them up and carry them there. And that's just not the chapter one. It's like we want to take our life experience and just like give it to them in a, I think in a good way. And by the way, thank you for what you just said that I don't always tell them what to do. That's one of the biggest compliments you could give me because, yes, because you know, that's not easy for me. It's not. You know, that's something that I've worked on. So the fact that that means a lot, but it's like, we want to take all of the pain and everything that we've had to earn the hard way. That's right. We want to just give it to them and cram it down their throats. Cindy's like, do this, no, this, no, no, don't do this.

15:30 Go around this, go above this, don't go through this. And don't you think that works for some things, but other things there are just areas of life that they have to discover and grow for and find out and learn for themselves. But how do we balance that? Because you do want to protect your kids from harm. You do want to set, we do want to set them up financially and help them make good financial, all those things to try to give them a headstart, but then that can so easily become doing it for them. and not letting them become independent, functioning, contributing citizens who love Jesus and love others? Yeah, such a great comment and, of course, a great question. And my response is inherently theological. And I don't want to apologize for that, but I want to add a caveat. You know, we are pastoring in a local community of faith. It's not the only thing we do, clearly.

16:23 But it's one of the things that we definitely are most passionate about. And so it's very easy for me to give answers and responses that are so anchored to the divine and how I see God. And I don't know. I think if I was all-knowing and omnipresent and, you know, omniscient, all-knowing, all-present. All-powerful. All-powerful, omnipotent. Like I start using all the terms. Omnipotent, I think. omnipotent is i i enjoy it i think it's a little more than omnipotent i prefer omnipotent that's how we sang it in the songs the omit i can't remember the song anyway continue i'm gonna lose my train of thought i'm telling you uh but no i i think god is so long suffering and uh god in our partnership he does not merely just tell us what to do there's a time where you're on a cliff and God's like, no, you know, we all understand those extreme cases, but in most cases, God is like very long suffering, gracious. And I think, um, there is a King and I believe in him and he is God. I think sometimes we want to be the God of our children. And I mean, I want to be my own God. I want to be my marriage God, but I want to be the parenting God too. And I want to be zion's god i want to be elliot's god i want to be grace's god sometimes i want to be god for their friends and i want to be god for their love interest and you know just feel like i could just make this better for you easier for you let me just let me just fix it i'm gonna fix everything you know and to what end and and is that the best route and i would argue for anyone listening and certainly for ourselves that though you might get initially the outcome you think is necessary and needed, but I don't think there's a development and a maturation that we all need as humans.

18:19 What do you think as parents is the heart posture or the internal thinking and processing that we need to cultivate and develop in ourselves so that we can not try to play God for our adult children? By the way, I love what you said. That is such a powerful thought that think about how amazing and wonderful God is in all of his wisdom compared to us in that he doesn't sit around and tell us what to do for every detail of our lives. He directs us. He's involved in this relationship, but he rarely overrides. He rarely overrides and he almost lets us set the pace in terms of the relationship, which is really amazing and crazy. And what we're trying to do as parents is Let our son determine how much does he want from us.

19:14 But back to my original question, what do you think is the heart posture that parents of adult children need to be able to do that? Because it's not easy. I think it's two sides of a coin and it's availability and humility. I think both those things are imperative. The humility probably informs the availability as opposed to arrogance and opinion or self-sufficiency and certainty. I think self-sufficiency and certainty can be very deflating for young adult children. It's like, no, no, no, I knew in 1978 I did this. It's like, dad, you don't. One of my favorite things to do with our kids, because I think it's honest, is tell them I can't imagine. I literally can't imagine having a developing body and a developing brain.

20:07 in the middle of the technological boom and social media, internet, and soon to be AI, which is going to change the world as we know it. I can't imagine. I can't imagine being my daughter right now and being 14 years old and going to high school with those dynamics in play. High school was hard enough in 1995 and six and seven. Started in 92. And now here we are, and they are heroic. I think a lot of young adults today are heroic. To be a contributing citizen as a young adult and this climate and this culture and this world, wherever you are on this planet, I think you're heroic and you're amazing. And I think we always felt, even as youth pastors, when our kids were little babies, but we were taking care of teenagers, was this idea of, man, if there's a way we could tell young adults all over the world that we think they're heroic and amazing, that'd be great. Well, we just, we thought, well, if we didn't do a good job of that, we'll do a good job with our kids. So I think humility and availability, meaning humility is like, listen, I actually don't know, but I'm here and I'm not going anywhere.

21:07 I love that you gave that analogy. I think it's choosing, making a choice to respect our kids and respect our adult children. It's a great way to say it. They are. Um, it's so, to me, it's so intuitive in marriage. I know your weaknesses, but I know your strengths. And I can't tell you how many times in a given day I have to make a choice. Am I going to focus on Judah's weaknesses right now? Or I'm going to focus on his strengths. What am I, am I going to get annoyed at the little things or am I going to celebrate the big, amazing things? Yep. And as you're saying that, I'm realizing that's actually discipline and exercise that we need to do with our son right now is to choose to celebrate the amazing parts about him instead of focusing and fixating on the things that he's still young and immature and a 19 year old boy in and really focused fostering that respect from them because it actually is genuine and here's the thing if it's not genuine your kids are going to feel it right oh man like but it is a genuine oh sorry i just spit that's gross um i didn't see it no that's nice just got on my paper um it is a genuine respect we have for who our kids are yeah and for what they're going through, facing, fighting, how incredibly they have developed in this world that is so different than the world we grew up in.

22:28 And maybe you're also speaking to familiarity, which breeds a level of contempt of sorts, meaning take each other for granted. You assume things. You presume things. You answer questions they're not asking. you tell them what to do when they're looking for someone to talk to um because you are familiar and and there is that lack of respect but zion at 19 is really his own young man and and we are here to be available but but he well and truly can start making decisions for himself and and when he makes decisions to be near to us and to communicate with us and to walk with us um treating that with a level of celebration that we would give to anybody else, frankly, that we gave to 19-year-olds in our youth ministry. Yeah, and that is an advantage that we've had. The first time Zai called me to ask for relationship advice, he's like, mom, this is what's happening with my girlfriend, blah, blah, blah. What do I do? I was on cloud nine. I was like, Judah, Zai just called. I'm trying to play it cool, but you know what I think another heart posture that parents need in this season that we've had to find is, Jesus help us, not finding our identity and not finding our own personal sense of worth in the apparent success or demise or lives of our adult children.

24:02 Oh, yeah. I mean, for me, I've told this story so often when our oldest Zion was probably two or three. I think I was pregnant with Elliot. So he must have been two and a half. and we're sitting on the front row at church. Remember it? This is your parents were the pastors. We were youth pastors at that point. And we're sitting on the front row, packed auditorium and Zion started flipping out. Your dad was preaching. And it was so, it was like, it wasn't like a loud moment. It was a quiet moment. And Zion started throwing a two-year-old tantrum. And I got so embarrassed. Like, you know, when you just want to crawl into your skin and absolutely die. Crawl into your skin? Yeah. Crawl under the pew? Crawl under the pew or out of your skin? Crawl into your skin. I like that. I've never heard that before. That's a new one. I'm so bad. Drink a little more Celsius on that note. All right. I am so bad at, what are they called? Sayings?

24:56 Clichés? Clichés, yes. I'm really bad at clichés. I just need to attempt to stop all clichés. But who cares? You're good at a lot of other things. Okay. So I wanted to crawl under the pew. Yeah. Crawl out of my skin. Because I'm so embarrassed. I'm thinking, oh, all the parents are going to take their kids out of the youth ministry right now. If we can't even control our own son, how, how are people, how are parents going to trust and bring their youth? And so I like picked him up and there was that side door and he's like, it's like a pickup where like his arms are flailing on one side and his legs are flailing on the other side behind me. And you're just like grabbing onto his waist and he's flailing. And I went out the door to just like, you know, I was going to let him have it. And the voice of God and Holy Spirit, I hear him sometimes. It's not always, but this was one of those very clear moments of God speaking to me. And he just said to me, Chelsea, do not discipline him out of your embarrassment right now, that that's never going to be a good thing for him. And I think that has helped carry me throughout all of our kids that we will never react to them in a way because we feel like they're making us look bad. This has been a new reiteration for that of being proud of our kids and loving them and who cares what anybody else in the world thinks about our kids and how they are in this season. Would you agree with that?

26:19 Yeah. And I think if you want to embrace, I love this word, embracing a new chapter, parenting adult children um man if you take that ego of how my kids make me look into this chapter something on my pants it is oh you sure do oh that's awkward well i was getting into a very good point but that's like yeah it's like chalk so interesting sorry about that um no i'm just i thought on my pants i know you'd be freaking out i just said it so you didn't freak out you know um no i let go of ego yeah just very few things would be more toxic and more depra detrimental detrimental what did i say deprimental yeah i did a lot of talking last night so uh detrimental to to the relationship then um really really both both approaches making your ego how great your kids are um which by the way if you take credit with how great they are then you gotta take credit with their challenging seasons.

27:25 But if you're willing to go, they belong to God ultimately. And we are temporary stewards. And the day's gonna come, our kids are gonna have kids. How they raise those kids is going to be interesting for sure. But it doesn't directly always reflect us. They are their own humans. And I know for a fact, I love my mom and dad. You love your mom and dad. But there are decisions we have made about our own kids that really have very little to do. Sometimes it has a lot to do with what your parents did back when you were in their home, but sometimes it doesn't. And so I don't think it's incredibly accurate. I think it's a little bit fictitious to think your kids are this direct reflection of your good or your bad. They are their own human and they belong to God. And detaching from that seems to be almost completely healthy.

28:19 Yeah. I mean, like I'm being proud of your kids is amazing. And when celebrating that and celebrating them and expressing that being proud of them like that, I'm probably such a fine line, like being proud of them, but not letting our identity or our ego or our worth being tied to their performance. Like our son who's playing basketball right now, he has a good game. How many? Okay. Elliot had a good basketball game the other night. How many people have you personally told his stat line to?

28:52 Not enough, but a lot. Like, I mean, I'm on a solid 10 probably. Oh, yeah, easily. Easily 10. I didn't know we were thinking of those small numbers. Yeah, you're like, not enough. It's like, I wanted to tell 20 people. Like, because we're so proud of him. And I will talk about, like, I will talk about ourselves awkwardly in conversations to talk about how great our kids are. Like, I love them so much. Love them so much. And I want to be proud of them. And I think that's healthy. But what isn't healthy is when that becomes my identity or my ego or a sense of worth or value for me. I mean, I think, you know, the story of the prodigal son, which is in Luke 15 of the New Testament, you know, God reveals himself as he's asked, why do you hang out with such bad people? He's like, well, you don't get me then. He tells these three parables ending with the last one with a father and two sons. And it's become popularized and notarized and all that. But it is an amazing thing to watch the father in this parable, which reveals the heart and character of God.

29:51 When the youngest son is wasteful, deeply and terribly wasteful with his inheritance and goes and wasted in what seems to be a pretty short period of time where the older son stays at home and is busy and diligent in the family business, so to speak. And yet when the younger son returns home, having wasted everything, literally lived selfish and wasteful, the father does not rebuke him. He embraces him and loves him. And that, to me, speaks volumes about how the father, his identity and worth is not in what his kids do with their inheritance. It's the fact that this is their kid and they love him. and God is incredible at challenging us, correcting us, but he's very gracious and loving and his love never ends and never stops.

30:46 And I think it's a sad day, you know, as you move into a chapter of adult children where you start to punish emotionally, mentally, financially kids who have maybe not always made the best decision. I think those are scary moments where you've got to check yourself. Am I doing this for me or am I doing this for them? that's such a crazy thought that i've never thought of before that in the story of the the prodigal son or actually like the lost sons because actually both two sons both sons were lost yeah one was lost in the home the other was lost outside of the home but um that the father never stopped to consider is what are the servants thinking of the fact that i am blessing my son who just came home what are my friends what are the peers thinking who i'm inviting to this party to celebrate his return that he just that wasn't that wasn't even a thought that's pretty it's very powerful very powerful speaking of finances shells who are speaking of finances you did a little bit i am going to read you a stat and i want you to guess the number okay okay in in the united study was done in 2018 this is reported in the usa today study was done by merrill lynch the the finance company. Okay. 2018, what percentage of kids ages 22, so post-college, ages 22 to 40, which is a wide range, but. Kids? Yeah. I like this stat. I'm just out of kidhood at 45. I think, well, adult children or whatever. Oh, okay. Okay. What percent of that age group do you think are still financially supported by their parents between the ages of 22 and 40.

32:28 21%. What makes you think that would be the number? Why 21? Yeah. Because it's more interesting than 20. But I obviously just think 20%. I don't know, my life experience at this point is thinking like there's a solid number, but I would think 20 is still like 25%, one-fourth, I don't know. Yeah, I probably would have gone with 25. Okay, yeah, yeah. So very similar. Right in there, yeah. Very similar guess. Yeah, maybe one in five, one in four. Exactly. That seems right. Yeah. This number is going to blow your mind. What? Yes.

33:08 65%. you are sitting here telling me that the ages of 22 to 40 65 in what country the united states of america the one that you and i reside in wait for it it gets it gets even the the number this is what's wrong with the economy like doing that i don't even know what that means actually i'm not an economist this is why we're having struggles in like i don't know what this is why people are debt i just like when like really incredibly smart people on podcasts are like and that's the reason the economy struggles and i'm like it is why why is that wow if we all knew the risen economy struggle yeah amazing we could all fix it that's simple okay great okay okay out of those 65 so the kids age 22 to 40 who are being supported by their parents still which is 40 year old these are like parents 40 these are parents who are retired right when you're 40 your parents are 65 70 okay Wait for it.

34:08 Guess how much the average a month. Where did you get these numbers? I already told you. Questioning the source. USA Today 2018 survey by Merrill Lynch. Oh, yeah, you did. Sorry, sorry. I signed my source. Yes, you do. Guess what the average amount of money per month is that these parents support these children. Don't tell me it's more than $5,000 a month. Oh, no. That would be insane. Oh. why was everyone laughing like i actually don't know why everyone's laughing oh i just thought i don't know that's where my mind was like i guess we're just getting crazy so i guess they're paying them salaries right okay is a thousand a month because five thousand dollars a month is a very amazing salary it's a great salary yeah that's why i just i mean We're dealing with 60-some percent here.

35:03 Bear with me. The average is 65%. I mean, so it's $718 a month, which, okay, that's really small compared to $5,000, I guess. But I was being outrageous. Yeah, but, and that's per kid, by the way. You think of families who have two or three. Like, that absolutely has blown my mind. Does that make you feel better about our sons' exorbitant car insurance rates? Yes, you shouldn't say that on camera. But it also is like if they're getting coffee at Starbucks every day, I actually want to die. That's a terrible thing to say. I mean, I just hope none of those, as I say children, that's not an accurate statement. Any of those young adults in this country are going to Starbucks to get like a venti because that's like $9. So I hope. Right. I mean, I hope that's going to like really good like food and stuff. Or like, yeah.

35:58 I don't know. Student loan repayment. I mean, not trying to judge parents who do that. Oh my God, not at all. We're talking generalities here, 65%. There's extenuating circumstances. Who are we? Also fascinating. We're very much still helping support our children. I mean, yeah. As I mentioned, we still pay his champagne. We pay a lot more than 700 bucks a month. Yeah, we still buy his shampoo and body wash. So interesting. I was talking to my mom recently. And she was telling me, I think she was born in 1951. So she would have graduated high school in 68 or 69. Yep. 1968, 69. She said when she graduated, it was just, you graduated, you just moved out. It wasn't even an option to even live at home anymore when you were 18 for my mom and her. Whoa. And my dad said the same thing. Shout out to the 60s.

36:51 Right? I mean, it was, I think rent. Is that why everyone went to Woodstock? Probably. I think rent was also a lot cheaper back then. So my mom moved from Spokane, Washington to Portland, Oregon to go live with her sister and met my dad. Anyway. I mean, it worked out, but yeah. Yeah. Whoa. Another interesting stat. And this is where I find it fascinating. You are full of interesting stats. I am. A third of those parents who support their children ages 22 to 40, they say their support of their children puts them at financial duress. Puts them in financial duress. to support their kids. Oh. Tell me the number again. A third. So 33%. So 33 out of every 100. That $700 is hurting them. Yeah, $700 is a month. They're really significant. Wow. It's a lot of love. It's a lot of something.

37:43 At the same time, I'm like, do it. Like, go be you, love your kids. It's all good. I get it. I actually get it. I'm just surprised. And there's so many unique extenuating circumstances. Numbers are so hard because they don't tell stories of individuals. And I'm sure if we heard most of these individual stories, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I do that too for my kids. At the same time, I don't want to. I love my kids. I don't want them to create financial duress and distress for me when they're at the ages, between the ages of 22 and 40. How do we give our kids support? This episode is far more relevant than I realized. That's all I got to say. Holy goodness. Right, how do we give our kids support? and protection to the extent that they aren't unnecessarily hurt and pained, while at the same time not enabling them to live off of us or to use us as a crutch. Or, I don't know, I don't even know what I'm asking, but just love to hear your thoughts on, I don't want to end up there.

38:46 And maybe some parents do, and I don't want to judge them for that. It's not a biblical precedent. This is us, you and I talking as parents. But what are we going to do now so that we don't end up there? Yeah, I mean, again, you know, it's got to be said, it's probably been said enough. But, you know, if there are reasons, you know, people need $700 a month from their parents, it literally could be treatment and could be addiction and disease and challenges. And so, you know, I mean, there's so many things that you and I are deeply empathetic around. Absolutely. at just any kind of hardship. You never know. People go through divorce and suddenly they don't have any income and they're trying to help their kids and pay for their kids and they got to go to their parents and say, hey, can you help your grandkids? And so look, you're given $700 so that your grandkids can have food and stuff. I do that in a heartbeat.

39:39 So statistics can be so misleading. Exactly, and they can be so depersonalizing. And yet the number is still, I would imagine for most people listening, staggering and surprising. But I think it speaks to probably the impetus around this episode, which is like, man, are we developing our children to be contributing citizens, to be the kind of individuals who want to get in the mix and be diligent and be consistent and be faithful, be true to themselves. You know, there's a level of fulfillment that comes with responsibility. I'm a big proponent when you look at the kind of the original storyline of the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament in the Garden of Eden. I like to call them kind of the four elements of a healthy soul, right? You need rest. You need relationship.

40:31 You need restriction. But you need responsibility. Yep. And all of those things are blessings. Rest is a blessing. Relationships, such a blessing. Restriction, necessary no. Saying no to things you could say yes to, but you're just saying no. I don't need that. That's not going to serve me. They're a gift from God. An extra slice of cake. I must go ahead and say no. But then responsibility, which is like you take on a level of responsibility that you follow through with. I am not, Chelsea and I are not like the big like work hard, earn it, deserve it, pull your bootstraps up. Like that's not our messaging. That's not even the gospel of grace and what we believe so much of what we do. We don't deserve at all, right? We don't deserve to wake up in the morning. But responsibility isn't about responsibility. It's not about hard work. It's not about hard work. It's about ultimately what I'm talking about is what's good for your soul. And I think as a parent wanting to raise adults is that area of responsibility.

41:28 You know, teaching your young people, your young adults in your family, like, hey, get rest. Margin over millions. Boundaries over billions. Like, those are some of my mentalities. I want to teach that, right? But I want to teach them also to say no, necessary no. I want to teach them how important people are. They're the most important. Relationship, relationship, relationship over everything. But let's not neglect that Adam and Eve were set in the garden and they were called to tend the garden. They were called to work. They were given a responsibility. Work was a blessing. Yep. This was before, theologically, before there was sin. Before there was sin. Everything was in the perfect state. Perfect paradise of humanity. Yep. There was work. Genesis 1, Genesis 2. yeah huge and and i think that's a big deal to us teaching our children that hey this this following through with your responsibility it's not because like you need the money you need to be a hard worker sure those things are fine and practical but like hey this will be good for your soul actually good for your soul like you will your mental health will improve scientifically it's proven yeah when you follow through and what we are saying when we say responsibility is teaching that little truth that says when you on a regular basis do what you don't feel like doing yeah just this little nugget something happens to your brain and your body and it's it's very very beneficial i do think one of the drivers and motivators for responsibility is consequences yeah is i agree if i don't show up for work i'm gonna get fired yeah if i get fired i'm not gonna be able to pay rent. If I can't pay rent, I'm not going to have a place to live. And obviously those went to very extreme consequences. As we're having this conversation, I'm feeling so compelled as a mom of a 19 year old to make sure that I am not unnecessarily protecting him from consequences of his own actions. That part of the letting go isn't just, okay, you don't have to show up for family dinner. Okay. Yeah. You're on your own for Thanksgiving. Part of the letting go is me being a mediator between him and the natural consequences of the decisions that he's going to make in life.

43:38 Yeah. That, yes, I want to have a whole conversation about it offline between me and you, what is our plan for making sure he is feeling the consequences of his actions, that he's either getting the positive consequences or the negative. Parents can try to protect from both, but. Which, of course, philosophically, I could argue that all consequences are positive. Yeah. You burn your hand on a stove. That's a negative, is it? Because if you leave your hand on that stove and you don't feel pain, you're going to leave your hand on that stove and not have a hand. Have you ever read stories of children, there is a disease where you can't feel pain? Very few. It's a very rare disease. There's nothing positive about that. But I don't think anybody's lived past the age of early 20s who has the disease where they can't feel pain because pain actually is a protector. It's a preserver. And there's a thought. as parents in this stage are we trying to protect him from pain in a way that he's not hurting from.

44:35 Pain that will serve him. Oh God, it's so hard because you love those babies so much and you don't want it but in a lot of ways it can be the most loving thing that we can do. I agree. I totally agree. How would you say faith both for us and for him has played a role in this season of parenting in this new chapter? Well, I mean, I think it's the ultimate cheat. And what I mean by that is like, I believe in sovereignty. And sovereignty starts with God gave us a firstborn son. Then he gave us a secondborn son. Then he gave us a baby girl. And nobody can claim credit for the maturation of a human in a woman's womb. I mean, that is a mystery. It's magical. It's mystical. It's incredible. and it's so divine and sovereign. And we've been given, you know, our firstborn son was a preemie.

45:33 Spent the first two weeks of his life in a little incubator. Oh, buddy. In a hospital. It was wild. All those little. And, okay, sorry, I know. It's so hard not to still see your kids that way. Like, I think about it. I go there, it feels like yesterday. It's hard to imagine him as this adult now suffering the consequences of his own poor decisions if he makes them. I still want to protect that baby. Sorry, you said that. It just brought up a wave of emotions for sure. I think that's where you and I, if we're really honest, what informs us on a daily basis is this idea that God has a father and he is eternal and he is all-knowing, all-powerful. Do you say that God has a father? Zion has a father. Okay, you said God has a father. Oh, did I?

46:24 Yeah. I was like, well, yeah, Jesus had a father, but then when you're going to... Zion has a heavenly father who is God, who made him. I love how, let's make a baby together. It's like, well, I mean, I don't know how to make babies. I know how to have sex. But do you know what I mean? It's a really big quantum leap for us as humans to walk around talking about, yeah, we made a couple of babies. Did you, bro? I mean, so we use those terms loosely, but ultimately, there is a father of us all, and Zion's relationship with him is most important. He's sovereign. He's divine. He's guiding our son. He's watching over him at night. He's guiding him through his days. And so the idea of is our faith an advantage is somewhat laughable. It's kind of a laughable question to me because that's like gravity.

47:18 You know, how involved is gravity in your daily life? It's like, well, it's kind of everything, you know, in a way. And there's the God of gravity. So how important is he? And what role does he play? I would say everything, all the time, everywhere. Like without him, there is no life. And so as it pertains to parenting adult children or children at all, there is this today in my bathtub, as I do most mornings, just saying, oh, God, be with Zion and Elliot and Grace and keep them and watch over them. And that's me every day going, these are your kids. I know I'm a temporary steward. I know they kind of look like me, but you made them. And you called them and you gifted them. And you gave them talent. And so I give them to you again and I ultimately trust you with them. So there's a relief there. I'm not trying to duck responsibility, but I am trying to honor the sovereignty that is very overt to me in this whole process.

48:19 Yeah, to me, I think of it like truly handing them over to God, as cheesy as that sounds. Like you said, Zion does have a dad. He's not just you, but he has an eternal heavenly father who is God in heaven. And in those moments of letting go of control, of letting go of my giving my opinions to my son, of letting go of it's every time I don't just see that as releasing. I literally see that. I picture it in my mind. I can't tell you how often I do that as a God. I'm handing this over to you. Wow. Yeah. So for me, it hasn't been just a letting go of responsibility and just like, but a releasing it of God, I'm giving this to you and you are taking care of your son. And what's that scripture? God of Israel never sleeps. He never slumbers that God's always watching over. He's always, you know that. And it's not a releasing as much as it is a giving it to God. And that has helped me so much.

49:12 I think the other thing that I wanted to say before we conclude in prayer is thinking back to those 65% of parents who spend $718 a month on their adult children still in this country. I wonder how much of that is guilt-driven, to be honest. Of like you started the episode off with, this is the season where we realize the mistakes we made as parents. And that is challenging. Don't make up for it with compensation. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's sobering would maybe be a better bit, be a better word for it. And I wonder if there is a continued weight of responsibility of as parents of adult children thinking, well, now I have to make up for the wrongs, for the things I did wrong when they were kids. And I'm saying this because if the season wore out, I'm telling myself not to do this, but being able to let go of the mistakes that we made in regards to our children, in regards to design specifically, because we have not been perfect.

50:16 That takes faith. To me, that takes a relationship with a God who is forgiving me, who knows forgiveness, who is bigger and more powerful than my wrongs. And that requirement of faith for me is really significant. Yeah, there's that letting go that you're talking about that comes with that, like, God, I'm going to trust you with my successes, with my kids, but I'm going to trust you with the things that I just didn't do. I didn't follow through. I didn't make sure that that was clear. I didn't, you know, I mean, it gets down to evenings where you're just tired as a parent. I think most of the things we miss as parents is because we're tired. I'm serious. Every parent's tired. And I think parents think, oh, I must be some horrible, difficult, challenging. And even I think, you know, I think of parents who use substances and maybe their kids are going to grow up and be like, ah, my dad was always drinking or my mom was always smoking.

51:17 It's like, well, I mean, people are doing the best they know how. And they're tired and that gives them a little jolt of excitement or whatever. And maybe kids grow up and think like, I realize my dad was drinking. It's like, well, being an adult isn't easy and raising kids isn't easy. And so we have a long, long runway of empathy there. But I agree, the advantage of trusting God with your kids is hard to put into words. It is a release. It is a freedom. It is a trust. It is a handing over. But, you know, between me and you, like, I go to God, not just a hand, like, I trust you with my kids, but I trust you with what I didn't do for them. I trust you with what I wasn't able to follow through on. I really trust you with that. And in a way, we're trying to remind our kids that that is ultimately, you know, as our kids are becoming young adults, we're, you know, we're telling them, hey, you know, there's going to be lots of things. You're going to be like, yo, why didn't we do that?

52:20 I've told them I'll pay for their counseling. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Maybe that will put me in the 65% of parents who financially support their kids. If we pay for their counseling, we are definitely in the 65%. I was like, hey, I know I haven't been in perfect home. Counseling these days is so expensive. Right. yeah my favorite therapy well that's i would love to close in prayer for ourselves for parents for kids it's it love to uh there's something to me about beginnings and endings that matter yeah and they're significant and yeah praying that this this goes right break you're gonna pray you pray okay such a good mom oh i'm i do love being a mom it is my favorite thing i i love so much of what i get to do but being a mom is my favorite i think that's where some of the emotions come for me. I think you meant to say being a wife is your favorite, but I understand what you mean. It's different, but yeah. All right, let's pray. Jesus, we thank you so much that for everybody listening, for us, that these children in this season who are becoming adults, God, that they really are yours. They are your sons. They are your daughters. Before they were ever ours, they were truly yours. Yes, God. God, I pray for ourselves, for everybody listening, Lord, that we would actually have enough faith and trust in you that we could appropriately let go of our children as they become adults, that you would give us wisdom.

53:39 You would give us strategies. You would give us creative thoughts, but Lord, that you would help us to truly hand our kids over to you, knowing that you don't sleep. You don't slumber. You are watching over them. You are protecting them. You are keeping them safe. You are real to them. And God, I pray for any parents right now who are fighting and struggling with guilt for things that we know we did wrong while we were parents. Jesus, I pray that you would come right now in these moments. And if we haven't asked for forgiveness from you or from forgiveness from our children, if we need to, I pray that you would lead us and prompt us that we would be willing to humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness. But then Lord, I pray that you would help us to let that go. God I pray that in those moments of forgiveness you would help us to forgive ourselves for our shortcomings as parents Jesus we can only do that in the light of how much you love us so Lord reveal to us your love show us how powerful you are show us your significance so that we can truly let go and see our kids flourish in a whole new season of life in Jesus name amen Amen