Grieving the Loss of a Friendship

2:38 Wow. This is so real. Right. And of course, we can thank the Survey Center on American Life for these stats. But unfortunately for us, we didn't need somebody to tell us personally that this was the reality of the pandemic. we lost a few very significant friendships in our life during the pandemic and really went through a significant grief over the loss of those friendships. So you and I can officially say we are part of the statistics. Yeah, those statistics, I think, stood out to us and hit home to us because in our own unique journey, we have felt the loss. And it's, I don't know if I'm willing to call anyone a former friend, but we've certainly lost touch. And there are a number of dynamics that might be the reason for that. But the point is, there is grief, there is pain, there is loss. And it has been, in fact, an unprecedented time for our family, just like most families. Yeah. And I think what we want to get into today is the sense of loss and grief that comes with having lost touch with a friend or whatever verbiage we're using and putting around it. You know, it is so different than, for example, if somebody passes away, if somebody gets a divorce, if you break up with a boyfriend, there is such a clear line of demarcation when those events happen. You know, when you broke up, you know, when your divorce was finalized, you know, the time of death is declared when somebody passes away. And there's just these final moments that we can clearly recognize. And then I think begin that grief process because we know when those things ended. But the loss of a friendship, losing touch with somebody, so often it seems to be more of a drifting or there aren't these moments of closure. And I wonder if it leaves us with unprocessed grief and loss because we don't even acknowledge that they've lost or ended.

4:35 It's a very different process that we have in our country when we lose friendships or when friendships drift. We're not, at least I feel like on this episode, especially we aren't coming here with answers. I don't know how many answers we have because we really are still in the midst of that. But I think we do want to just start a conversation so that we can begin to connect with this reality in a healthy way in our own souls. Yeah. And the only thing that I would add is I think it's actually a little bit more than a drift. I think our amazing listeners here at in good faith will probably be like, well, a drifting friendship, that reminds you of an old high school friendship. That reminds you of an old workplace friendship, a water cooler friend. We're talking about a little more distinct detachment that maybe has been brought about by a global pandemic. Maybe it's brought about by politics. Maybe it's brought about by professional dynamics that have adjusted. But I just want to reassure everyone out there listening that we're not just talking about more of a natural drift that happened in friendship. This is a distinct drift at best, if not a distinct detachment. Yeah, because there are seasonal friendships.

5:45 And it's funny when I think about you and I graduated high school. I graduated in 1996. There was barely an internet. I think I got dial up AOL in 97. So there was no way to really keep up with high school friends back then. And so we've had a lot of friendships in the past that went through a natural drift that was more a seasonal friendship that came to an end and that didn't have the same sense of grief and loss that the changing of friendships that we have experienced in this last season have had. Well, I mean, and that is quite a Pandora's box to open when you start talking about how the World Wide Web has affected relationships in the last two and a half years is hard to express. I know for a fact and have on record best friends who are no longer speaking because of what each other posted or did not post on their Instagram feed. And that is a dynamic that is just hard to even wrap your head around. Right. We also have friends and friends of friends who have stopped being friend over vaccines. Yep. It is wild and it is such a unique time that I wonder if some of our post-traumatic stress recovery from COVID is going to have to deal with facing the loss of friendship. So what is your initial reaction, initial response to the topic of grieving the loss of a friendship? My initial reaction is a lot like men that I've met over the years who compromised their family or the things that they loved. And they would say this, I never thought it would be me. But I feel embarrassed to admit that I think that's the feeling more than anything. It's like, wow, I just never thought. I think I prided, and I mean the word pride, I prided myself in keeping friends, in forgiving, in loving, building bridges, not walls, being a reconciler. And in the cases of current dynamics and challenges and transition in our community of faith, our church, I never thought it would be me. But I also am willing to admit

7:55 that some of this is unavoidable, if that's okay to say. Yeah. And I think I hadn't even put that together. First of all, I feel like before we can go into a process of healing to deal with the pain of something, first we need to remove the shame of something. Let's be honest. This has been on our topic list of episodes to record for about four months and I kept pushing it back. And I'm realizing the reason I pushed it back is for me, the shame involved in losing a friendship. I know there's things that we could have done better and I've never had any false illusions about that in this whole process. But even though I've admitted that to myself. I don't think I've admitted to myself the shame that is involved in having friendships change. Have you? Or do you feel shame? Is that just me? No, I think I do feel a level of shame. I think shame hits me as a little bit of a stronger word. I think I feel deep disappointment and I don't feel like demonizing anyone, including myself.

9:03 when there is a change of professional role and you're not interacting as much as you used to, that's natural, right? Yes, I mean, over the pandemic, a lot of people change jobs and a lot of friendships are natural within jobs. A lot of people move cities and a lot of friendships are natural when we're in close proximity to people. But I think because all of that happened so sudden, there's still all the feelings of a lost friendship as opposed to a drifted away friendship, even when those natural circumstances were involved. I'm really impressed that you're at a place where you're not demonizing yourself or others. I don't think I'm in a place where I'm demonizing others. I think I still probably get down on myself a little bit more. Were you always at that place or how did you get there?

9:49 No, I mean, you know my personality and I think what I say and I say what I think, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of outward processing that goes on in my life. I just don't think there's any secret on my end why there has been either distinct drift, if not distinct attachment in some friends. And that is a lack of, if no, communication at all. And that was a decision I made. I know why I made it in the cases of a few of our friends. I was scared. I was scared that they were mad at me. I was scared that I had hurt them and harmed them in an irreparable way that I didn't want to face. I like when things are all put together. I like when everybody gets along. I don't like confrontation. And I can be ashamed about all that, or I can just be like, that's just who I am and that's what I do. And it's why I make friends easily. But when friends drift or detach, I try to kind of ignore it and hope that it goes away, which only adds to the pain.

10:50 That is how I hurt people and friendships. And that is just that. Yes, that is very true. You've been a person with a large circle of friends. I've been a person with a smaller circle of friends. As silly as it sounds, I think anything that we have less of is more valuable. And I didn't know I was going to get emotional. Wow. man we don't have very many friends and that's by my choice i've in high school i had three friends you know i i've pretty much been a three friends person most of my life but when your friends are are few but deep that loss is very deep it is and um whoo you know me i don't cry often i know i absolutely love it i know you're loving this moment. There's probably a lot of people like me who have had friendships be adjusted in this season who probably have a level of grief and loss. Can I ask you a really direct question?

11:47 Sure. I don't know if I'll answer it, but you can ask. Someone like you, I've been married to you, sleeping with you almost every day for 22 years. We're rarely apart. I like it that way, by the way. I don't know if you always liked it that way. You don't make fast friends, but you make meaningful ones and long ones and deep ones. What are you going to do now? Yeah. I have been in a wrestle and a battle in these last six, eight months as we're not coming out of COVID, but I think a lot of resettling has happened. I don't know if we're in rebuilding yet, but at least we're into the season of evaluating what the loss is. It feels like, you know, you see people after tornado especially come out of their bomb shelters and you look around and see all the destruction and you just kind of evaluate it seems to me that that's very much where our world is at right now at least our world i don't and i think probably that would be a pretty common feeling so as we've been in this evaluating moment i have had to ask myself am i going to have friends again am i going to set myself up for this kind of hurt? And maybe I'll answer that eventually as we get to the end of this podcast. But I think before I answered that, I had to ask the question of have I and am I willing to forgive myself and the people who have hurt me? And I remember one of the most significant moments I was on a walk. I tend to have good, clear thoughts and I'm on a walk and And just having an honest, I don't know if it was a conversation as much as it was a complaint session with God of just, hey, God, I'm really hurt.

13:27 This is really hard for me. And picturing a specific friendship that we were no longer in contact with at that point. And I just had a moment of, and this is going to sound so spiritual. It was not, it was actually just painful of feeling like I need to pray for this friend and pray that they would be rooted in their new location and rooted well, and their roots would go down deep and that, um, the hurt of the past season wouldn't dictate the future that they were going through. And I, on this walk, I went through a moment of truly praying for this individual. And that was a marker for me. I know I had a decision to make in that moment. And I think that was a decision for me of actually forgiving myself and forgiving others. Although I wouldn't have known it was at that time. This is probably a year ago. Now looking back on it, I realized I think it took that moment for me to forgive myself and to forgive others to the extent that I will be able to open up my heart again to friendship, but I'm not going to do it quickly. And that's honest. And I could only imagine that so many people listening and participating right now in this conversation in their mind feel the same way. And I think if this episode, if it only ever did one thing, but that was take shame away or minimize or make it smaller in people's life.

14:58 This, this, all of this work would be worthwhile. And I think there is a lot of people beating themselves up over the loss of friends and my heart hurts for them. I know what that's like. Yeah. You know what that's like. My heart aches for them. I agree. And when you say beating yourself up immediately what I pictured is going back and rehearsing. Yep. And that's going back. Shoulda, coulda. The woulda, coulda, shoulda is that if only they would have, if only I would have, you know, and going back and rehashing and rehearsing and either blaming ourselves or blaming others, no matter who we're blaming, any blame is not beneficial for future healing. And so I would say a really significant step in grieving the loss of friendships is whatever we need to do in our heart. So we stop playing the blame game. So we stop blaming ourselves or blaming our friends that were lost and dissecting and analyze and trying to figure out who did what wrong and who did what right and trying to be more right than the other people were right. I know that's a problem that I have is I know I was wrong, but I was only 20% wrong or I was only 30% or whatever.

16:12 And realizing that that does nothing to serve us in our future. And it does nothing to change the past to try to dissect the amount of wrongness that took place in a friendship that has changed. Yeah. And my journey with being right has been interesting in this season. And I'll be completely candid. I think when you take the role of a public servant, which we did years ago and love it and am thrilled to be a public servant in the form of a preacher and a pastor, friendships are affected by public servants, a politician, a news anchor, a school teacher, maybe a school principal, even a high school football coach, basketball coach. When you have this public role and maybe other friends don't have the public role, the perception oftentimes amongst the friends is you are more responsible because you're a public servant. You're more responsible because you're in the public eye to an extent. And that's been difficult for me on a very personal level, feeling like, man, being right as a public servant. And I'll say it this way, when it comes to the loss and the grief of a loss of a friend, being right is just grossly overrated.

17:40 I was going to say, I know you're saying that in the context of being a public servant, but don't you think it's overrated and kind of wrong for most everybody? It is. It is. There's a little extra added weight that is public servants. But what I have read that as is I've actually relinquished my right to be right even more so. And I want to embrace that as opposed to despise it. Yeah. I think that's so true in marriage, in friendships, in Akita relationships is really relinquishing our right to being right. Yeah, we all got to do it. I just have had to own it on my own personal journey because you were talking about your personal journey. My personal journey is like, stop it. Stop it right now. This isn't about you being right. It's just not. Isn't it crazy how nobody could know that's happening on the outside, but on the inside, we are honestly waging a war with ourselves to let go of being right.

18:40 Yep. And I'm so much more of an internal person than you are. You probably vocalize it more. but when we talk about grieving the loss of a friendship i i honestly know for me one of the things i'm grieving the loss of is being right whoa and the and letting go of the right to be right well and i think the reason you want to let it go is because being right will not comfort you in the dark night of the soul it will not comfort you and if you say it does that is a fleeting that That is like high fructose corn syrup. I was just gonna say, I feel like- It's like white refined sugar. I feel like it's like sugar. It gives you a high. In the moment- Yeah, I'm right. You justified yourself. You made yourself right. But then after that comes a crash and a burn and you felt good in the moment, but the crash was not worth the high. It's not.

19:31 Two questions, and they're loaded, just to warn you. Okay. The first is, what do you do to move past the fake it till you make it attitude? I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I don't know how they're doing, but I know I'm good when you're really not. And then number two, what do you do if you want to maybe repair that distinct, detached friendship that has faded and drifted? What do you do? Is it possible? You know, you have one tattoo on your body that you're so proud of. I really am. You really are. And it says better at 70. You wear that as a reminder for us that we will intentionally make decisions now that will help us to be better when we're 70.

20:30 that we want to be better spouses to each other. We want to be better parents to our kids and realizing we're going to have adult kids and grandkids and want to be healthy in our souls and healthy in our relationships. And we say that as a mantra to each other to be willing to make difficult decisions now for the sake of a better future. I'm not a counselor and therapist, but I've met with enough and talked with enough to know that if we don't deal with grief and loss, it will come back to bite us later. And so for people who have that careless attitude, I'm good. I'm fine. I don't miss them anyway. They were a bad friend all along. You know, all the things that we're tempted to tell ourselves. Can I just stop right there and just say, we've got to be careful with this narrative. There's also a really pervasive, prevalent narrative right now. And that is like, I found out who my true friends were. Hold on a second. Hey, wait a minute.

21:21 Oh my gosh. You want people to say that about you somewhere? That friendship that's broken up. Do you want them telling? I found out who my true, they weren't true. Thank you for saying that. It's like, what? Yes, they were. That's such a deflection because I can look back on every relationship that was lost and say that was a true friendship. Thank you. That was a true relationship. And anything else I'm telling myself is a lie. It's a lie. That I'm telling myself to deflect from dealing with the grief and loss that I actually feel. That's right. And I'm telling myself this now and I'm telling you this and I'm telling whoever want to listen. I will walk through the journey of grief so that it doesn't come back to bite me. Because you know what? I don't want to be a lonely 70-year-old. I don't want to be a bitter 70-year-old. I don't want to be somebody who has closed off my heart and is untrusting and unloving. And I only let two people in because every other personality type has hurt me. And if we don't deal with hurt, we will close off our heart. And that is human nature. I've used this analogy before, But when I was 16 years old, we got hit by a drunk driver and I was in the backseat of a minivan.

22:27 Me and a group of friends. How 16 year old is this? We're going out to play hide and go seek in a graveyard. Oh, that is the worst idea I've ever heard. We thought it was fun. And I was in the very back row of a minivan and this drunk driver came speeding around the corner at us. And because I was in the backseat and I happened to be looking behind me, I saw it coming in slow motion. You know how life switches into slow motion. And I saw it coming and sure enough, he hit us and I got a little scar on my elbow. We all ended up in the hospital. Everybody was fine, except somebody had a knee injury that was permanent. But every time I was in a car after that, you know how out of your left corner, out of your peripheral vision, you see a car turning. As soon as I would see a car turning, I flinched for a good amount of months after that. I mean, I was the flinchiest driver and 16 year old drivers aren't good anyway. Imagine being flinchy.

23:20 And it is normal human response to when we go through trauma, when we go through fear, to cut off parts of our heart and move on. And I could see myself doing that in friendship in this last season. And I don't want to. Wow. So that would be my answer to your first question. What would yours be? You know, obviously what's lacking there is a real sense of self-awareness and candor. I think we do that for a number of reasons. We don't want to know the truth about ourselves. We don't want to know the truth about others. And so there is an implicit kind of brokenness that's implied. You have to admit something's broken. You have to admit that you're broken. You know, me and my friends, we like to say our middle name is Nightmare, you know, and that just kind of sets the record straight. And if your middle name's Nightmare, you know, so to speak, then you can go ahead and admit the nightmare parts of you.

24:15 and hey, before we start counting the true friends and the not true friends and the ride or die and all this jargon we use in this culture to mostly deflect, let's take inventory and say, listen, I am not always a perfect friend either. And guess what? That's okay. And so it is okay for those that hurt me. And by the way, like saying that you're not fine probably means you're more fine than you think you are. Now, to be fine, fine, fine, good, good, good all the time. How are you? Good. How are you? Fine. How are you? Good. How are you? Fine. You're definitely not good or fine. That's why you keep saying that. So I think it takes a really strong person to be weak and broken. And I think it starts by saying, what kind of person do you want to be? And I tell you what kind of person I think you want to be.

25:09 If you're a listener, you're willing to listen right now. You want to be strong. You want to be honest. Do you want to be true? And that starts with just admitting a global fact about everyone. And that is that we're broken and we're not complete. We're not whole. And we are not the perfect friend. And it's so interesting that in our marriage, I know you aren't perfect. You're humble. You're great. You're kind. You're godly, but you're not perfect. I think we walk into marriage with such wide eyes of being aware of the other person's weaknesses. But I don't know if we walk into friendship that wide-eyed. For me, friendships going forward, I hope to be more wide-eyed and aware of people's weaknesses going forward. So I'm not hurt by them and surprised by them because I think that can produce a better friendship and relationship the same way it does for marriage. Am I crazy to think that or is that just my hurt talking that I'm trying to protect myself in the future. Yeah, no, I think that is more true than it's not. Maybe that's a good thing coming out of these unprecedented days that we just admit, hey, listen, you're going to get hurt. This isn't going to go well all the time. And I think I hesitate too, because people are like, well, family's family, blood's thicker than water. I only got my family. And I heard that so much lately. Like, man, I realize the only people I can trust is my family. It's like, well, well, that's not even the way God made the universe. We were meant to choose friends, family, oftentimes with the exception of the extraordinary act of adoption, which is even spoke of in scripture in the new Testament. Like it's something that you're just, I didn't choose the Smiths. I didn't choose October night, 1978, Portland, Oregon, Wendell, Eugene Smith, and Virginia Renee Smith had a son named Judah Elwood Smith. Like that was all just chosen for me.

26:57 friendship is that rare beautiful dynamic of life that you choose each other and it's wonderful right and so let's not cut out a whole dynamic and dimension of living because of these days yeah so can i transition that into the second question that you asked me yes because i'm preaching over here such a good question no it's so good and that is how do we know if we should attempt to rekindle a friendship that has drifted and then i guess the second part would be if we feel like we should, how do we do that? Yeah. Well, I think to me, it's probably not too dissimilar to what I would do when it comes to offense. Offense is an interesting thing. When I'm offended, like in the moment, someone says something mean about you, let's say, and I get offended at the person. What I'll oftentimes do so I don't react, rather respond, wait, wait on it. An hour, maybe at the party. The next day, if they're actively involved in my life and say, hey, am I really offended? Is that something I need to go talk to them about? And if it resurfaces, I'm like, okay, I got to go to them because this keeps coming back to me. And I think it's the same with friendships. If there are some things that have detached and drifted in friendships, but the desire is not resurfacing to kind of rekindle that and reconcile that, let it go.

28:16 You can't be friends with everybody, right? And maybe that bandwidth that opens up will be something that you can use elsewhere with other individuals. Having said that, if it does resurface and it keeps coming back as you contemplate it and think about it, I think that's a pretty sure sign you need to reach out and see if it's possible. And it may not be because the other person may not reciprocate. Yeah, I love the simplicity of that answer of, hey, do you still desire to be friends with that person again? Not do you miss them? Because of course we should miss the friends that we've had. do you have a recurring desire to rekindle the friendship? And because if you don't, let yourself let go. It's okay. Yep. You can't be friends with everybody. And by the way, I'm talking to myself more than anyone else. I think about that verse of scripture that says, as much as it depends on yourself, be at peace with all people.

29:14 And I love that that's the standard God set for our lives. we can't force other people's actions or perspectives or attitudes towards us, but we can control and deal with our perspectives and attitudes and actions towards others. And whether I want to rekindle or I don't want to rekindle a friendship, I do want to be at peace with every person in my past. I want to be able to walk into a room and see anybody I've ever known in my whole life, give them a big hug, look into their eyes and say, I just want the best for your life. I'm so happy you're doing good. I don't want to be friends with everybody again, but I know I do want that. Is that a lofty goal, do you think? No, I think that's very realistic. And I think ultimately that's probably where we land mostly is like, hey, even if you don't want to rekindle or if it's not even sustainable to rekindle, reconnect, reconcile, that you release that person, that you release them from gossiping conversations about them. You release them from cantankerous, contentious thoughts about them in your heart. You actually let them go, which we all think is just like not texting back. No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean in your soul. I mean in your heart, where if not, that can affect your actual health, mental health, physical health, the whole thing.

30:40 Do you think it's healthy, because this is something we have not done, to bring closure in a friendship? When should we do that? When should we not? it. I'm going to answer this in a way that I believe in a great God, a great gregarious, wonderful God and creator, designer, who's intimately and actively involved in our everyday life. So having established that belief system by which we see our entire world and view ourselves, friendships, dynamics, and categories of our life, I'll say it like this. If God puts that on your mind and heart, and you got that same desire to reconcile, if you have a desire that resurfaces and revisits you in your mind, and I say do it, make the attempt. And by the way, at least attempt it. And if turned down and rejected, don't harbor that in your heart and hold that against them. They have their own freedom to decide how they want to respond.

31:54 But if you want to bring closure and you get a chance to do it, more power to you. I agree with that answer 100%. If you feel like God prompts you to do it, do it. I also think it's okay to let them go just in your mind and inside. Oh, absolutely. But to know, if you need to write it in a journal, if you need to pray a prayer, if you need to talk to a therapist, if you need to write their name on a paper and put it in a fire, I don't know. Just as a line of demarcation so that you know to yourself, I'm releasing this person. I'm not gonna gossip about them. I'm not gonna, all those things that you just said. that if you need an act of release for yourself internally, do it. But I don't think it always needs to be external. If somebody does want to rekindle a friendship, I think the first step requires a lot of humility. And the person who has the guts to do it, to humble themselves, say, hey, I know we've been drifted apart. I know I did some things wrong in the friendship.

32:52 Not telling the other person they did things wrong probably isn't the best bet. but I'm willing to give this friendship another go if you are. You know me, I'm such a front door person. That would be my front door approach. Do you think there should be a more side door approach? Well, Solomon said a gift makes room for you. And he quite literally meant that actually. And so I would say, give a gift. I think if you want to rekindle, give a gift. And what's the greatest gift you can give? Tell the person how wrong you were. Tell them in what ways you hurt them. Ask for their forgiveness. Start there and see how it goes. If they're like, no, I'm good. bro. I'll cut you off right there. Got to let you go. Amen. Thanks for the call, but we're good. Click. All right. Well, I gave it my best. I doubt that'll be how it goes, but it might. And do you put yourself out there and say, but I would love it if we could rekindle a friendship? Only strong people do. That's hard. Only strong people do. But there could be a really incredible result at the end. There is something to the age that we are and the majority of friendships in our life we've had for 20 years or more. And the majority of friendships that seem to drift away were like 20 year friendships. You realize that's valuable. You realize you can't recreate somebody who knew our kids when they were babies because they're not babies anymore.

34:15 And as much as I could show somebody pictures or tell them stories, they're never going to know my kids when they were babies. No new friends are ever going to know your dad. And those realizations do make me think that there are times it's worth putting yourself out there. I agree. To rekindle a friendship that was lost.

34:45 Like I said, my friendships are valuable. But you could start new friends. You know, what's that expression? No new friends. Drake was wrong. Yeah, you can make new friends. But you can't make new friends who know the things that your old friends knew. Are you going to change how you relate to the friends that remain based on what's happened with the friends that have detached? I think for me, it's too early to determine that. I think anything I would decide now would probably still be from a place of hurt instead of a place of health. And I don't want to make decisions out of hurt. I want to make decisions out of health. I mean, that's even why I hesitated when I asked you the question of, I think I want to be more honest about the weaknesses that my friends possess going into it, but is that okay? Or is that just my hurt talking? So, I don't think I have an answer for that yet. How about you?

35:40 I think one thing that I'm trying to practice that has changed is communicating expectations, small little expectations, trying to tell my friends when I'm not going to be available on the phone, trying to tell them when I really do need to hear from them. Do you guys have time for a phone call today. I really need to talk to you. I'm scared. I could really use some prayer. I'm about to go on stage. This happened recently. And I just text my closest friends that I'm about to go on stage. Can you pray for me? Creating conversation around expectation, consistent conversation. And that's communicating expectations beforehand instead of waiting until they were disappointed and you're hurt and angry, which is a very healthy thing to do. And I've thought about that and talked about it so much in marriage. I think the one answer I would give is just to be more intentional and to be more thoughtful. And I feel like I'm at a healthy enough place to say that, to really be intentional with who my friends are and how I want to build healthy friendships going forward. I mean, I feel like all of this has been a toolkit journey, but always trying to give a toolkit. Anything you feel like we left unsaid as far as steps or processes?

36:57 I would only say the next step is probably we should do a part two to this one and just continue the conversation. And whenever that is, so be it. But I think maybe we give an update, you know, some months from now, grieving the loss of friends. Where are we at with that? How are we doing? Have we reconciled in some cases? Have we rekindled in some cases? What have those dynamics been like? I think the story is so far from over here. And I hope people get encouraged by that. I know for the Smith family, all is not lost and all is not ended and over. There is still so much more to look forward to and new friends to be made, but also the friends we have to be more intentional, to communicate expectation, and then prayerfully consider some reconciliation in some other friendships. Yeah.

37:48 I want to thank you for your candor. I want to thank you for how honest and direct you've been and even emotional. You know how much I love emotion. It makes me feel more connected to you. Having said that, would you pray for us? I would love to pray. Thank you. Jesus, I thank you so much that you are real and that you are with us. And at times when we don't even know how to open up our hearts or want to open up our hearts or don't even know that our hearts need to be open, I thank you that you are gentle and that you are kind. but you're also not willing to just leave us in places where we would cause ourselves harm for the future. So Lord, I pray for people who are listening.

38:33 Lord, I, I invite you to. thank you god there's a reason i don't cry very often once i do i don't stop god i invite you to come in and in your gentle kind loving way work in our heart in such a way that would bring about healing that would heal our heart from loss and grief and all those scars will probably always remain that we could learn to be better friends and have have deeper friendships in the future i pray for my brothers and sisters who who maybe don't know if they want to open up their heart god i pray that that you would just come in such a gentle kind way and show us a vision of the future give us hope for beautiful incredible friendships that you know you have down the road for us and in store. God, I thank you that you're with us and that you are the comforter, but you're also the healer. And I pray right now for comfort and for healing in your name. Amen.

39:41 This has been a presentation of OBB Sound, SB Projects, and Cadence 13. Executive produced by Chelsea Smith, Judah Smith, Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Elias Tanner, Scooter Braun, Scott Manson, James Shin, and Chris Corcoran. Produced by Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop of OBB Sound and Kyle Vanuja of SB Projects. Produced by Lauren LaGrasso and Serena Regan of Cadence 13. Edited, mixed, and mastered by Daniel Chavez Crook. With editing support from Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop. Original composition by Colin Gilliard. Production support from Kristen Crosby and Dylan Martyr. OBB Sound is an OBB Media Company. Cadence 13 is an Odyssey Company.