Our Love Story

0:00 All right, we ready? You got a story of our first memory? I can't tell you how ready I am. Okay, it'll be fun. Chelsea and I have known each other since we were in diapers. And in all those years, we've come together, we've been pushed apart, and of course, ultimately, came together for good with an amazing 22 years of marriage under our belts. So today, in honor of Valentine's Day, we're going to go back to the beginning if you want to go with us and tell you where our love story begins. We'll talk about the first time we went steady to the first time I saw you naked in all the peaks and valleys along the way. And what keeps drawing us back together each and every day. So here we go today on In Good Faith. so my first memory of you i must admit is uh muddled and that's a terrible way to even start and a really gross word the beginning of our love story that's supposed to be romantic Your memory is muddled.

1:10 But it is muddled. I have these deep memories that are unclear and murky of you and your sister. I see sweet little Chelsea. Oh, my gosh. She had like this, just always had the most beautiful skin and the cutest, most adorable face. I'm falling in love with the face in my mind all over again. But my first most vivid memory of you at a really early age was safety patrol in fifth and sixth grade. I was in sixth grade. You were in fifth. I was in fifth. You were in sixth. And you were obsessed with me, which was a big deal amongst my fifth grade friends. I'm not going to lie. I was hot. And Mrs. Kuhnhausen, my fifth grade teacher, you were hot. You know, we started using terms like hot with fifth and sixth graders. but that plaid skirt and that beautiful button-up white blouse right do you remember that always tucked in that was required and um do you remember what I was wearing uh this is an elementary school uniform so you had blue pants cords and a red polo shirt blue cords and a red polo shirt oh gosh I remember those safety patrol days the day seemed to go so slow because knowing that at three o'clock, I got to walk with you out to the street and then walk back. It was the favorite part of my day in those elementary school days. Do you remember what we talked about on the walk? I mean, random things, I'm sure. Okay. My memory of you? Yeah. Well, it's not my first memory, but it's my most vivid was when we also carpooled together. And I think my mom dropped you off first. And so we dropped you off and you were standing at your door. This would have been, um, you had khaki pants on. When did you wear khaki pants? Oh, I think that would have been when I was like 12 or 13.

2:51 Was that more middle school? Khaki was middle school. Because you had khaki pants on. Oh my word, you're going to tell that story. And a navy shirt. And you were standing knocking at your door waiting for it to open. And it's the first time in my life I ever noticed a guy had a cute butt. And I was sitting there watching you knock at your door. Such language, butt. Right? Wow. And just think, wow. To this day, I really enjoy your derriere. Is that a better way to say it? Really? You still think I have a cute butt? Yeah, you do. I still like squeezing it. I remember you guys at this beautiful pool, and we'd come over to swim at your pool. And I remember you commenting on my, when I put a towel on that my butt was cute. I did? No, no, no, no, no, later, later. Oh, gosh, I was going to say. No, not in the moment. You would never. I was going to say, that was so forward of me. I got a funny story. I had a photo of Chelsea by her pool in a bikini. It was a picture with my sister, who was best friends with Chelsea's sister.

3:44 Our moms were best friends. How intertwined are our lives? And then we went on summer vacation together. It's like, wait, are you sure you guys weren't related? You're both Smiths. This is getting weird. Yeah. And so one of the things I don't think we've talked about in good faith is that my maiden name was actually Smith as well. Even though, thank God we weren't related. We were both Smiths. From best we can tell. From best we can tell. But I mean, I really appreciate that you took my name when we got married. It's very, very much so. And there's our joke, folks. That's it. That's the joke we've been telling for 22 years. Well, that joke and along the fact that our moms were friends when they were pregnant with us. And they said, let's have a boy and a girl and they can get married. And literally, can you imagine these two beautiful ladies pregnant together three months apart in their pregnancy saying, gosh, if we could have a boy and a girl and get them married, that would be the best. I'm telling you the intertwinedness here, which is not a word, was outrageous. But I had a picture of you, Stacey and Wendy.

4:41 I cut out Wendy and Stacey, our sisters, and I just kept the photo of Chelsea in her swimsuit. And then I made photocopies of it. And then I would sketch it. This is getting weird, actually, now that I think about it. And it was you, like, in your little swimsuit. And I thought you were super hot. You were, like, 13 at that point, I think, right? 12 or 13. Yeah, probably. And that photo of you in your bikini, I kept it in my desk drawer when we moved to Seattle. Oh, it's so crazy to think. Okay, but those emotions and those feelings seemed so real. So real. They were every bit as real as the love I have for you now. I mean, extremely different. But it's crazy to think of our kids being that way and their emotions being so deep and so real. Because after our eighth grade year, after we'd been dating for a year and a half, but liking each other. Dating is a loose term.

5:32 Going steady really is more appropriate. Junior high, 1991. Whatever that means. We never really went anywhere. Except for on family trips. but we'd liked each other for three years at that point and then your family packed up and moved from portland to seattle and that was rough that was do you remember the gift you gave me when i moved to seattle a pillowcase oh yeah i made i still have that pillowcase do you remember the gift you gave me a bible a devotional a devotional that's right i know my mom made me do that i had to give you a christian devotional yeah and you but you signed it your quote special friend your special friend. That's right. My mom said I was allowed to call you my special friend. And you were so obedient. That pillowcase smelled like you for years and years and years. Still have that pillowcase, by the way. Okay. And you know what's so weird? Sometimes I still catch you still smelling my pillow in the morning. I love how you smell. You're my best friend. I love that you still love how I smell, but it hasn't gotten old to you after 22 years. Is this a creepy episode? Are we creeping people out? Probably a little bit. But this is our story, folks this is our story what do you do early on a monday morning smell my wife's pillow reminds me of my childhood

6:41 so junior high we liked each other obviously I was a great older than you it started when I was in sixth grade you were in fifth grade we started liking each other but we never really said anything about it it was just we just liked each other and that built up until I was in eighth grade you were in seventh grade. And that's when we officially became boyfriends and girlfriends. And we were boyfriends and girlfriends at that point. Yes. We liked each other. And we expressed that relationship at that tender age of 13 by writing notes back and forth. This is the early nineties. There is no text messages. There was passing notes in school. And we still have that box. Yeah, we do. The highlight of my day was getting a note from you, but I loved it because we were best friends even at that point. I mean, I had girlfriends who were best friends, but we just got along so well and enjoyed talking and laughing. And obviously because our families were friends, there was such a comfortability and you were so cute with your cute little butt.

7:44 And I just liked you. I was not to like. I had blonde hair back then. Yep. Spiky blonde hair. Spiky blonde hair. Yeah. I mean, did I run things in the middle school? Yeah. I don't want to get into it. That's not the point. Yeah. I mean, actually it is true. Even though you were a seventh grader, you pretty much ran the whole middle school. So appreciate you saying that. That's certainly how I remember it. I'm getting old. I'm 43, still wanting people to know that, you know, ran the junior high. But then the sad news came. Yeah. About halfway through our eighth grade year, your family decided to move from Portland, Oregon, where we had grown up, to Seattle, Washington. About three hours up the highway. Yeah, where your parents moved to start a church. And I was devastated because I was going to miss you so much. I mean, you really were such a close friend. And at summer camp that year, I remember being on a beach walk and praying. just talking to God. It's like, God, I'm so sad. He's going to move.

8:36 Who am I going to sit by? You know, all these things. You talk to God about me? And that is where I know this is everybody's favorite life verse, but it's actually my favorite life verse, which is Romans 8, 28. It says, all things work together for good to those who love God and are called to his purpose. And that's probably one of the first times I felt like I just had that peace of God that comes from hearing his word. And I just felt this peace that all things were going to work out for good. To the tune of three children and 22 years of marriage later. And a puppy. Oh, and a puppy. Do not forget our puppy. He's my favorite child. I'm kidding. So you moved to Seattle and we still dated for about six months. Now, this is when long distance phone calls cost money. There's no email. There's no FaceTime. There's no Skype. Do you remember that? Our parents like, you need to hang up. That's enough. Yeah, like we could call each other like on Saturday nights or something because it was cheaper. Cheaper, yeah. And then we wrote cards and sent them in the mail. So maintaining a long distance relationship amongst 14 year olds. Wasn't undertaking.

9:30 Yeah, in the early 90s wasn't undertaking. So it only lasted until the youth group ski trip that we went on. Remember that I went on with your church with Pastor Jude. Oh, that's right. That was my first time, second time skiing. My first time was with you in Mount Hood when we were 12 and 13. And I was much better than you. And then our second time ever skiing was at Mount Bachelor with you. Yeah. And that is when on this youth group trip, we broke up. We just decided it wasn't going to work. It was just too hard. And so I was a freshman at this point. You were in eighth grade. I really felt like you were the impetus behind that breakup. I probably was. There's other cute high schoolers who are a little bit older. Yeah, and you went on to date many, many men. I did. Not many men. I mean, probably my freshman year. Wait, you admitted it and then you said you didn't? I mean. Which is it? I. Oh, are you hearing this, ladies and gentlemen? I mean, her absolute. She's unraveling in front of us.

10:22 No, well, we got back together when we were 20. So how many people can you really date between the ages of 15 and 20? Well, I don't know. You tell us. I don't know. The audience is on pins and needles. Probably my freshman year of college was when I really tried to date around the most. You sure did. Wow, wow, wow. Meanwhile, I was over here reading my Bible. The only thing you did during our high school years when we were apart was you kissed a girl playing Truth or Dare. I did. Eighth grade state trip. You went somewhere in the state of Washington for your eighth grade year. And I did. I kissed a girl named Michelle. So, yeah, throughout high school, we'd see each other. We'd see each other once in a while on family vacations or like if our churches would get together for a camp or conference. And I will have to say, every time I saw you, I always thought you were cute and always just appreciated you. Is that cheesy? How do I?

11:13 Just appreciated me. Just noticed you. Wow. And I think you noticed me too, because you always made a point to become friends with my boyfriends. This is, here we go. That is absolutely true. Here we go. this is absolutely ridiculous and really contentious on your part. I did not. You ended up dating guys that were my friends. And that was your way of sending a message, as they said. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Oh, get out of here with your agree to disagree. So much for in good faith. I don't feel like this is in good faith at all. This is in disagreeing on the memories of high school students in love. How could those ever be accurate? So post high school, I was working for my church and you came and you were our junior high camp speaker. Twin Rocks Friends Camp on the Oregon coast. I was the 19-year-old camp speaker and you were the 19-year-old like assistant camp director and it was a couple hundred junior high students.

12:13 And I remember this. The one thing that kept me from actually fully liking you was I thought you were a little bit cocky at that point. And you're actually so confident. And truthfully, now your humility is one of my favorite things about you. But I just thought because you have this confidence and you're good looking and charismatic, I just thought you were cocky. And so that was kind of a turnoff for me. But I remember watching you at this camp and you had done something that maybe I don't know if you went over time or did something that maybe you didn't feel like was right. And you immediately came up to the camp director and said, I'm so sorry that I did this. If it wasn't right, do you need me to apologize or something? And I just happened to be there. And something clicked on in me at that point. And I realized this guy is really, he is humble and he's special. I don't feel like I remember this part of the story. I think I might, I think I might be interested in him in some way. At day camp, I definitely heard Chelsea thinks you're arrogant. And I was like, what?

13:07 No, I mean, but then of course, only an arrogant man would say, I'm not arrogant. You know, so I was like, well, I can't do that. So, but, but yeah, it hurt for sure. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you heard that. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. Somebody told me, I forget who it was. They're like, yeah, Chelsea thinks you're arrogant. And I was like, well, maybe I am if she feels that way. I thought she knew me better than that. So at this camp, I realized that you weren't arrogant. I thought, okay, maybe I could be interested in him. Fast forward a few months. Oh, no, we are not fast forwarding because at that same camp, Chelsea burned down the kitchen. She burned down the kitchen at this camp. It was unbelievable. So I am speaking in front of 200, 300 middle school students. How many middle school students? Yeah, probably 200, yeah. It's about 200. It was packed house. And I am waxing eloquently. Probably even back then I spoke for an hour, if we're going to say. And all of a sudden, one of the camp leaders came in and told the camp director.

14:00 And I see them whispering in the back. They wave at me to stop speaking. I stopped speaking. And they have to remove all the kids from the chapel because the kitchen's directly across from the chapel. and they were worried that the kitchen that Chelsea lit on fire would catch the chapel on fire and hurt us. So what actually happened? The kitchen burned down. But you know what I think is so incredible? Is that I must have been so good at my job that I didn't get fired for burning down the kitchen. So you know what? I take it. I just take it as a win. That's how I take it. It's true. Who doesn't get fired after they burn down a kitchen? Oh my word. That is funny. You've been burning down kitchens since. I'm kidding. That's a joke. I've just stopped using kitchens. That's how I have handled that. Chelsea brings her food from afar. That's in the Proverbs. It's all good. That's such a cheesy Christian joke. So anyway, fast forward. For Christians out there, you don't talk about Proverbs 31. Fast forward a few months.

14:53 It's Christmas time. Our families often spent Christmas together. And this Christmas was the turning point where. Christmas of 99. 98. Oh, 98. Yeah, we got married in 99. That is so long ago. I know. Oh my word. It doesn't seem that long ago. Remember, our sisters were together. All of us were talking. My family is staying at your family's house and you and I just started talking. And then our sisters slowly, as they did our whole lives, ditched us, went off to bed. And you and I just like stayed up until three in the morning, just talking, talking, talking about everything. And I remember, you know, here's our more adult version of ourselves, not fully adults, just loving conversation with you and loving to connect with you in that way and feeling like we could talk for hours. And I'm, that's not always normal for me. That was such a special, special connection. You know, I went upstairs and my sister woke up, right? And she's like, were you guys talking the whole time?

15:47 Do you know that? I was sleeping in your sister's room with her. Oh. So no. Must have been the next night or something. It was probably after we left. Oh, it was after. Okay, okay. That's what, yeah. And she's like, she was so excited. And we stayed up so late talking because, of course, our sisters wanted us to get together again. My parents actually since have told me they had a conversation before we went to Seattle that year. saying, honey, babe, my parents, what they called each other. Right, whatever. If we take this trip to Seattle, I think Chelsea might fall in love with Judah. And my parents knew that if that happened, I would most likely end up in Seattle. And so they actually thought about not taking the trip. Is that true? Yes, but then they realized you were such a great man and they would actually be happy if we ended up together. Oh, I love that part of the story. I don't even know if I've ever actually heard that part. I knew that they thought if they went up there, maybe we'd get together but thinking about not coming can you imagine if you didn't come on that trip I would have found you anyways but um still that's uh that's incredible then on Christmas day 1998 you called and said I called Chelsea on Christmas day as my mom and dad and sister are standing around the phone in my dad's office and uh I said can I talk to your dad no yeah I remember the exact line.

17:08 Oh, you do? Yes. Oh my word. What was it? You said, because you hadn't, I didn't know at this point if you really liked me or not. Like, is he just being friends? Am I special? Am I not? And so this is a few days later, we talked on the phone a few times. I was back in Portland. You're in Seattle. And you said, so I want to ask your dad if I can pursue a relationship with you. Oh, that's right. You didn't even have, I was like, wait, this guy wants to talk to my dad without asking me first? No, no, no, no. This I remember. You're like, does that mean you like me? And I was like, oh, you're an idiot, Judah. You kind of got that out of order. And I was like, yes. And he's like, can I talk to your dad?

17:43 I got so nervous. So sweet and so old-fashioned. I'm listening to that now of all of our friends and thinking, who asked their dad if they can pursue a relationship? But this is. We were 12. We were 12, 20. And I was still living at home. And you felt like that was the proper thing to do. And I loved your courage. So January 1st of 1999, we had our first official real date in Multnomah Falls. Multnomah Falls. All the Northwest people know where that is. Went up to the bridge, felt the mist from the beautiful, one of the great falls in the United States of America, I might add. Highly recommend it. And well, gosh, less than a year later, I would propose to you at that same falls. Yeah, you do. Where I would put a ring on a stuffed animal lion. Very weird. But anyways, we won't get into that part.

18:33 But I love that season because it was just that young love, you know, that infatuation, that romance, that I can't sleep, I can't eat. All those things and all those feels were so real to me back then. I mean, I said why I fell in love with you because we just talked and it was great. Why? I mean, apparently I need a compliment, but why did you like me? Well, it had nothing to do with sex in your body. It was really only spiritual and emotional. So you grew up a lot since junior high and taking a photo of me in my bikini. Right. And keeping it in my desk.

19:08 Well, because I've never connected with anyone like I connected with you in my whole life with the depth and the continuity. And yeah, I knew you were beautiful. I knew you were gorgeous. I knew that you would get more beautiful with age. that was very attractive. My mom is very beautiful. Your mom is gorgeous but I just figured if we were first friends and great friends that friendship would sustain us through difficult times in as life partners and I think I was right. Do you think I was right? I think you were right. I loved your hands too. I've always loved your hands. I think they're just some of my favorite. Chelsea has just such regal hands. They're long. They're beautiful. Oh thank you. I like your lips, except for the mustache right now. But that's another topic.

20:00 I just got to trim it. It'll be fine. I don't like your mustache because I like your lips so much. I mean, could you imagine what if... I just had a revelation. Could you imagine if I wore gloves all the time? Wouldn't that make you sad since you like my hands? Of course that would make me sad. That's how I feel about your mustache. But that's not what we're talking about. My mustache is like gloves on your hands? Yes. That's like covering it all though. Okay. Gloves with fingers. With the finger holes. Oh, okay. I'd be a little more comfortable with that. No, you wouldn't.

20:30 1999 we fall in love we start dating it was so great you asked me to marry me at woldama falls i said yes and then november 5th 1999 we got married in front of well this is back in the day. Can't imagine these things happening now where you invited the whole church to your wedding. So I invited all of my church to our wedding. You invited all of your church to our wedding. It was more like a church service than a wedding. Yeah. We like, we had food for 800 people, only desserts because it was so expensive. And we ended up with like 1500 people and completely ran out of food. It's funny because the trend back then too was like, yeah, invite everyone. And it's a, it's a big wedding. Isn't that cool? And now I just know in my heart, I've been like, man, it just would have been way more fun to have like a couple hundred of our like closest friends. But we were young and dumb and happy. And, and we just, we just had a church service. Multiple speakers. Like it was like a, it was like a conference.

21:39 Do you remember the meet and greet line? Oh, our receiving line. Yeah. We stood there for two hours and said hi. Why did I say meet and greet? That's weird. Right. And said hi to all of our parents, friends. I just kept putting my hand on your butt. We were definitely the Christian couple who stayed virgins until we got married. Because I was terrified. I was legitimately terrified in touching your boobs or your butt or anything. I mean, I just was terrified. I was terrified that God would get me. My mom would kill me. So yeah, we really didn't do it. I had not touched your behind or your boobs at all. And so then we're in this, ladies and gentlemen, imagine this. Here's my best friend, the love of my life. I am obsessed with her. More obsessed today than I was back then, but nonetheless. And I mean, I've never been that horny. And I am standing in, I don't want to exaggerate. How long was the receiving line? Two hours at least. At least two hours.

22:30 I was going to say more like three. I think we finally called it off. But like meeting and greeting, basically our parents, friends, and church people. And I'm looking at this woman trying to look down her dress. I can see the cleavage. I've never seen her nipples. I'm so excited. I just want to like, But as the story goes, I couldn't wait much longer. But anyways, we won't get into that right now. Oh, no, we definitely need to get into that. I mean, can I tell our limo story? Yeah, I guess. This is our podcast. I mean, what are we going to do? Prepare yourselves, Christians, all over the listening map. Okay, well, let me say something positive first. And that is because our conviction was to not have sex before we got married. And that was our personal conviction. as afraid as you were of your mom and God about that. It was our personal conviction. I thought because you had so much self-control and you didn't cross the line while we were dating, you actually adhered to our conviction.

23:26 It has built in me so much trust throughout our marriage that if you were able to have self-control back then, that you can still have self-control now and that you are a man of your word and a man of integrity. And I never would have known those short months of self-control, the value that that could have added to our marriage for the rest of our marriage. Well, and I couldn't have either. I can't tell you over the course of 22 years and all the minutes and moments and days, not a lot in a row, but that we've been apart. Man, that trust, it has meant more to me than millions and millions and millions and billions of dollars, to be honest. And for those listening, it's just, I would just simply say it's worth it. No matter what you believe about scripture and God and Jesus, it's just a really, really awesome trust investment. Yeah, I mean, it's also why we started dating January 1st of 1999. And we're married by November 5th of 1999.

24:18 Self-control has your limits. So you're this amazing man who had all this self-control while we were dating. And then we did the receiving line and the cake and all the reception. And then we finally get to the limo. Keep in mind, like, we're not doing any dancing or live music. And now that I look back, it's probably because of traditions and customs and whatever. But also, you know, we weren't trying to hang out. I've been to so many fun celebrations. It's like, man, we go all night. We have fun. We have a blast. But like for Chelsea and I, it was like, no, no, I really even haven't ever seen her naked. And I've been waiting to see her naked for a very, very long time. Oh, no. Here we go. So we get into the limo. The privacy screen is up. It's 98. So you are 99. So yeah, of course, we had a limousine just to be clear. Oh, gosh, it's so cheesy now. So we got married in Portland. But then after our honeymoon, we were moving to Seattle. And I just said goodbye to my mom and dad, my sister. I can't believe we're telling this story. It was a little bit emotional. A little nervous. For me. At that point.

25:10 So I look, I'm longingly looking out the window, like waving goodbye to my family, literal tears in my eyes. And I turn around and your pants are fully pulled down. You're like, you want to see it? Yep. That's me. We'll leave the details at that. And I looked at my brand new wife's face and I- Proceeded to make out with me. Yep. You didn't really care. I was crying. Nope. I was going to say that, that I saw your face and you were in tears and you were hurting and losing your friends. and I just... I think at that point I laughed and smiled. I mean, what else was I going to do? It was great. It was fun. That was still in the church parking lot, to be clear. Yeah, we hadn't even left the parking lot. But it's crazy now, thinking back about our love story and how we've now reached the part where we're 21 years old and we got married. We've been married for 22 years. So we've been together longer than we were apart growing up.

26:04 Just recently, yeah. It's a pretty cool feeling. And it's interesting, though, in those 22 years, how many times we still had to or got to choose each other over and over and choose to fall in love and choose to go through hard times, having our first babies, the passing of your father, career, hardships, but how much that found, and I really think about it in telling these stories that we haven't told in so long, that foundation of love and trust and friendship really has been such a sustaining factor over these years. Let me ask you a question that I don't know if I've ever asked you about our journey and our love story. What is the most prevailing point from the beginning of our love story that has really meant a lot to you that maybe I'm not aware of? And when you say from the beginning, like from all the way up until now. Yeah, we can go all the way back to when we were kids. We can go back to our wedding.

27:00 It's funny. You hear people say that the person you fall in love with, you can try to change them, but they're not going to change. So just kind of bank on that. And I think about our relationship and our friendship over the years. And such a significant point for me was when you realized you liked going on vacation with just me, that you didn't need a bunch of guys around. You didn't need buddies. You didn't need a party that I was actually enough to be enjoyable and relaxing for you for a week or 10 days. And I think about that trip we took to Hawaii. I think it was our first trip after all three of our kids were born and Grace was maybe two, we didn't even rent a car. So we were probably at this resort for a week at a time and breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We just talked and talked and talked and had meaningful conversation because we had babies. We probably hadn't had a lot. So we probably had like two years backlogged, but just the fact that you still enjoyed me. I mean, sex is great and that's wonderful. And that's been so fun, but that you enjoyed me and my personality and my brain and who I am has probably meant the most to me over the years. And you remember that early on? Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. How would you answer that question? I knew you were going to do that and I didn't have anything prepared. I really asked that because I was just curious. I think there were moments in our marriage where because of your love for me, you changed everything about your life. And I remember the overwhelming sensation coming home as a janitor, working for the church, custodian, and I would come back to our little townhome, which we were so blessed, still love that townhome, and seeing the adjustment you were going through. At the time, it was just pain. At the time, it was loss. At the time, it was lonely.

28:48 At the time, it was, but early on, I remember, you know, late at night, laying in this bed with this person, you know, we can be in bed together. This is wild. And watching you sleep or whatever, thinking, man, she's left everything, like Portland. You know, it's only three hours down the road, but back then, it might as well have been 3,000 miles. You know, it was just, it was so far. And I was like, whoa, she chose me. And I think in the course of 22 years, like revisiting that times, like this human being chose me knowing that it would be painful for a while before it wasn't. And it was. There was a lot of love and a lot of passion. But it was, you were lonely. You moved to Seattle. Seattle back then was so different from Portland. Portland's like super cool now.

29:42 Seattle is kind of the big brother. And it was just a different, such a different life. I remember feeling like, whoa, this is a responsibility. Like this brilliant, bright, strong, incredible human being has changed her life for me. And I still get like a warm place in my heart thinking that you did that. And you keep doing that. And I hope that I'm doing that still 22 years later. You're like, no, I'll walk into pain because I love you. Yeah, it's funny talking about pain in marriage. I know this is our happy Valentine's Day love story episode, but I don't think you could have a good love story without pain. Initially, it was the pain of moving, but then it is the pain of adjusting to babies, the pain of, as I mentioned earlier, losing your dad, pain of change and so many things that have happened in the course of 22 years.

30:40 And I think that pain either drives you closer together or it drives you further apart. Because I feel like every time we've gone through something acutely difficult, it has brought us closer together. I look back at my pain of missing home when we first got married, but it forced us to be friends. It forced us to rely on each other and depend on each other in a unique way. Why do you think that is? That pain worked for us? Yeah, that instead of growing apart, it actually caused us to grow closer together. Probably it starts with you. I think early on in 99, 2000, those couple of years, there was a lot of change and change is pain. And you embraced the pain. You didn't deny it. You didn't try to avoid it. You acknowledged it. I fought with you at times. I would get upset with you. Well, then get out of the house and meet people.

31:33 And, you know, humiliated by that dumb stuff. Remember that huge fight you got in and I had been folding laundry and I was mad at you because I, like you were out golfing or something. You said throwing laundry at me. You took all. Oh, I dumped out the laundry? No, you're right. I threw the laundry at you on the laundry that I'd been folding. Oh, yeah. You threw it across. I was so mad. I was just chucked it at you. Chucked it at me. I was like standing in the kitchen, I think, and you were just throwing it at me. I was like, oh, oh, oh. You know what I think is so interesting, babe? Thinking about our first year of marriage and the fights. And I think the reason those fights seem more difficult or those years seem more challenging is we hadn't had victories behind us. I think after our oldest son was born was probably the roughest season of our marriage other than our first year of marriage. Just because it's so much transition, I think we were used to having each other all to ourselves. And then adding this third person in was kind of a unique dynamic. Yeah.

32:24 But at that point, even though it was difficult, looking back and realizing, no, we made it through the first year. and even though this is challenging, we can make it through this challenge. And then, you know, right after Zion was born, your dad was diagnosed with cancer, realizing, no, we can make it through this. And with each victory, the next one seemed easier, if that makes sense. Absolutely. It's like that documentary, the guy climbing all these mountain summits. I'm sure every summit you summit, you kind of feel like, well, if I did that, I could probably do the next one. And maybe that gets lost in the mix sometimes. People realize, I was like, man, if you got through that, fighting really does have that feeling sometimes like you're building something. Because I can guarantee you one thing in any romance, in any relationship of any kind, there's going to be valleys and there's going to be mountaintops. And recognizing both in the role that they play in the love story, I think is really important.

33:19 Yeah. You know, I had an interesting experience at the dentist yesterday that parallels. My teeth are straight. My mom paid a lot of money. Mom, thank you for all the orthodontic work. I had braces for 400 years. And the dentist said, you know, you got great teeth. What do you want to do? And I said, I always have cavities. I always got to get them fixed. I never get numb. I just don't want to have any more pain. If I do veneers, do I have to brush and floss? And veneers fix everything, right? And he's like, he looked at me and kind of like, pause. A brand new dentist I'd never met before, just trying to get like, you know, pain-free life with my teeth. And he looked at me and he goes, you still have to brush and floss. He said, no, you can still get cavities. And he's looking at me like, and I go, oh, I'm just trying to get rid of this pain. He's like, literally, my dentist turned philosopher. I don't even remember his name. He goes, no, this is life. There's always going to be some pain. And you're going to have to just work on keeping your teeth healthy.

34:13 And I was like, oh. And I think. That's such a good analogy. Well, it's just, okay, here is our Valentine advice. At least my Valentine Day advice of 2022. Here we go. If you think the relationship you're in, that pain-free is an indication it's the right relationship, I would argue just the opposite. Any pain-free relationship is not a real relationship. If you're going to have a lifelong romance, one of the ways you spell lifelong romance is pain. And change is pain, and pain is change. And life keeps changing. Life just keeps changing. Okay, I thought where you were going to go with the veneer analogy, which your analogy is great, is that you think it'd just be so much easier to just get rid of your old teeth and get new teeth, and then you could be free of pain. Oh, my word. I mean, I could see that. And there have been times in 20 years of marriage where it just feels like escaping this would be so much easier. Just get some new teeth.

35:09 Getting out of this life with Judah, whatever. And you just kind of need to get a new life partner. Just a dentist to tell you, like, no. You're going to have to maintain your new teeth, too. Wow, that is a great application. That's a little better than yours, huh? Okay. Now we got an old-fashioned Valentine Day competition going on over here. Oh, but I think about life with you, and I think every one of those painful moments was beyond worth it. Yeah, but you set a precedent in our relationship that I think people can really glean from, and I certainly have and learn from it dramatically. And that is when in pain, I think the best thing, the most functional thing to do is say, I'm in pain. This hurts. This is hard. Doesn't mean I'm quitting. Doesn't mean I'm done. doesn't mean I'm out. I'm not changing my teeth, but this hurts. And I need you to be here with me and recognize that this hurts. And I wasn't great at being with you in the pain. I constantly just wanted to eradicate it and fix it and eliminate it or numb it. And I now know 22 years later, a big part of our love story is being together present in the pain.

36:14 Well, and that's what I love about you actually going back to that middle school camp that you were speaking at is that that humility that I found in you there, I still love in you today, that you're always willing to learn, always willing to grow, always ready to just say, oh, okay, I need to learn that, do that differently. Nobody's ever going to find a perfect person. But my wisdom is if you can find a humble person who's willing to change, you can end up in a very beautiful, loving relationship. So happy Valentine's Day. happy valentine's day there is our love story and uh hopefully a couple of takeaways yeah how do you think we'll make it another 22 years out of curiosity oh man that'll be 44 by the way it's the math comes to me quickly i don't want to get in our kids are going to grow so we're going to go through empty nests together oh i am so excited we're going to live just today i know all we have is today but just when i peek into tomorrow i'm like in about five or six years we are and there'll be some exciting things about that but there's gonna be some hard things i mean there'll be some pain yeah we're one year away from our oldest son leaving so i don't know i think we'll just keep doing it we'll keep dancing keep dancing music changes but you stay on the dance floor and i say you dance with the partner you came with hey i feel like any person who is not in a relationship who stuck it out on valentine's day to listen to our love story who wants to be in a relationship is such a hero because that can be such a tough season and situation.

37:42 And I know Valentine's Day can be lonely. Can you pray for anybody who is feeling lonely as we conclude our episode? Yeah, that's a great way to end. Thank you. Let's pray. God, I thank you. You said that you are near, you're close to the brokenhearted. And there is no doubt, people listening to this episode, that this actually ends up being a reminder of maybe love lost, relationships broken, or just the fact that maybe there's never been this kind of romance in their life and they desire it. I pray today, right now in the moments as I'm praying on this episode, that each and every person you know by name who feel this way, that you would comfort them and you would be near to them and you would remind them that the work and the plan and the purpose you started in them, you will be faithful to complete it.

38:37 In all of this, we were reminded that you are the source of life. You are the source of love. You are the source of meaning and purpose and comfort. And we trust you in your name. Amen. Amen. This has been a presentation of OBB Sound, SB Projects, and Cadence 13. Executive produced by Chelsea Smith, Judah Smith, Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Elias Tanner, Scooter Braun, Scott Manson, James Shin, and Chris Corcoran. Produced by Grace Delia and Caitlin Plummer.