Preserving Second Families and Chosen Families

0:00 Family means something different to everyone. Growing up as Christians, Chelsea and I were taught that family is everything. And in some ways that will always be true. But as you get older, your idea of family, how you prioritize your family, and even who your family is inevitably changes. Yeah, and it never stops changing. So today we're going to dive into all things family. Your original family, the family you build with your partner, your second family, and even your chosen family, your friends. It's not an easy topic, and that's why we're diving into it. Today on In Good Faith. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to In Good Faith.

0:53 I say welcome back because I'm hoping it's not your first time. But if it is your first time, all the more welcome to put on my good radio voice in good faith. And we are so excited about our conversation today. It's going to be. Excited and a little nervous. Yeah, a little nervous. It's going to be a hot one. We know we're not experts. Listen, we've got to put this in perspective. I don't know. I'm a little bit hesitant right now. This podcast is so exciting, but I feel like we're about ready to walk through a meadow of beautiful flowers. But invariably, you're going to step on some flowers to walk through the meadow, you know? And so I just want to prepare everyone listening. Like, hey, we're probably, we might step on a few things that are like flowers to you and are really important because navigating this is no science at all. And it's going to be different for each of us. I think of different cultures, different parts of the world. We're going to have to speak openly and candidly about our context, which may not be applicable effortlessly to everyone else, but it's our way of just going, hey, let's open up the dialogue here about the second family, the chosen family, your family of origin. And boy, there is just so many layers to navigate in this regard. For context, everyone, the reason we're covering this now is we're hoping at this point, things are kind of fresh right now on our mind, our heart, our emotions.

2:11 Many of us either endeavored to be with our immediate family or were with our chosen family or with our second family. The holidays can create a bubbling up of emotion of sorts. So it's kind of a good time and a good moment to exercise around this a little bit and think through some thoughts and maybe get healthier in the relationships that matter the most. So when I think about Second Family, my mind goes back to November 5th, 1999. It was a rainy day in Portland, Oregon, torrential downpour, gray skies, the day that you and I got married and said I do to one another. and you and I have a very unique experience, which I think we need to acknowledge where we're coming from. And that is before our wedding, I lived at my parents' house. You lived at your parents' house. I had lived in college dorms for a while, but saved money, moved back with my parents before we got married. And we literally, I packed up my parents' house. We got married, said I do, hopped into a limousine, got an airplane. Packed up your stuff at your parents' house.

3:16 You didn't pack up your parents' house. Just my stuff. And we flew on an airplane to Hawaii, flew back to our townhouse in Seattle, Washington, where we began our married life together. And so we literally left our first family, our family of origin and began our second family, which was the family that you and I started, became our immediate family. We went straight from one to the other. Talk about whiplash family. Yeah. And our townhouse just happened to be, this is another story for another day, but 0.7 miles away from your parents' house. Yeah. So So listen, I was real excited that my mom and dad put a down payment on a townhome for us. Like, oh, wow, that's so generous. Only to find out it was basically around the corner so that my mom and dad could keep tracks on their son and his new wife. So let's just say things got complicated. For those that don't know this about my wife of 22 years, she is a very strong, independent woman who is very strong in her views of the world. early on in our marriage, I was not fully aware of the content of your character and the depth of your strength. And I was pleasantly surprised, but a little shocked early on at 21 years old, we were children. And what I didn't realize, and it's humiliating to say this, I think in the, in the first seven days in a row, my parents were at our house, wait for it, unannounced.

4:42 Is that true? It was seven days in a row. Yeah. Knocking on our door one way or the other. So finally walk to our house. After seven days on the eighth day, you and I were on a hot romantic date at Red Robin, which is what you do when you're 21 and nearly as we used to call it, splitting a cheeseburger because finances were tight. That's right. And I sat across the booth from you. I remember the exact booth. I could go back to the Redmond Red Robin and sit exactly where we were sitting. It's probably been remodeled since. And I said, so are your parents going to spend every day with us? And I looked up from my half of the bacon cheeseburger in total shock. Like, I didn't even know they had been over. It hadn't even calculated to you. Because all I'd ever done was live with them. But this is not normal. So I was like, wait, we're not going to live with my mom and dad and you? Nope, that was not the option. So sure enough, that evening, your dad came over, the least handy man in the entire world. He came over to attempt to try to help you.

5:39 He just wanted to connect with you and relate. and be a part, but you did the awesome thing that a new husband should do. I will never forget that, babe. Like looking in his eyes, he's like, yo, dad. He's like, yeah, what's up, son? Hey, I'm trying to put this bookshelf. Was it a bookshelf or something? Yeah, you're the greatest dad on the planet. It's just all heart. He's like, ah, I got this bookshelf, son. And maybe give me a hand with it. And I said, well, dad, actually, I need to tell you something. Oh, what's going on, son? I'm so proud of you. Dad, you can't come over every day. and I'll never forget the look on his face. And by the way, that was the last day he ever came over unannounced. He would never do it again. He never missed a cue, a social cue. And very few words were spoken by him after I was done. I said, dad, I need boundaries. You can't come over unannounced. Please call me before.

6:32 And he hugged me and left within probably 15 seconds. And he said, I understand. I love you. Gave me a big hug, walked out. And I'm sure that bookshelf never got put together because I certainly wasn't going to put together. I think I actually invited your mom to come over and help me and she and I got it put together. But boy, was that the beginning of learning about how to navigate the dynamics of the second family you and I were building together. And to me, that was such an amazing marker lined in the sand boundary, however you want to call it, to say, no, this is our family now. Our family is me and you. And it prioritized my feelings above your dad's feelings, which was really significant for me because you just I didn't know if, you know, like I knew you loved me. I knew you wanted to marry me, but I didn't know if am I am I really number one? And watching you do that with your dad, your hero, one of your best friends was really significant.

7:28 And it made our family feel safe and protected and secure. But how did you feel? It was scary is the only word that comes to mind because you're thinking to yourself, this is the safest people I've known. Whoa, so true. And I've known Chelsea my whole life. I just want to amplify for a moment people who are committing to be their new second family in the context of marriage or a committed relationship. it's like uh i've known my family of origin to an extent and with all of its drama and dysfunction and bizarreness at least it's like the safest thing i guess i've known and and obviously there's layers there that we could get into in the varied experiences we've all had with our families of origin but for me personally it was the safest place and now i was looking at kind of the head, you know, my dad really set the culture in our home, such a happy, faith-filled, you know, loving, considerate, affectionate man. I was like, hey, you can't just come over.

8:32 And part of my head and my thinking was like, what are you doing? Like, is Chelsea going to be that affectionate? Is Chelsea going to be? But it's like, no, either you commit or you don't. And I had made a commitment and I wanted to walk that commitment out. I think this idea that you'll have total clarity when committing to your second family and setting boundaries with your family of origin is a complete farce. It's just a big fat risk. That's what it is. Or it's also a lie that we're going to do that one time and then it's clean overdone. Oh, get out of town. It reminds me, remember the year, the first time we told our families, we're not going to come to your Christmases anymore. We are going to have our Christmas. What was that? Five years in? No, we had, it was when I think we had all three babies, but they were probably like two, four, and six. So that would have been 10, 11 years. 10 or 11 years to get up to courage for that one.

9:25 I don't know if it was courage. Also necessity too. Like I didn't want to cook and all that stuff. But we had our kids and our babies and we wanted to establish our traditions with them instead of just doing what our parents wanted to do. So I think we just sent a text. I'm not going to lie. Oh, we did? Yeah, yeah. It said, here's our plans for Christmas this year. This is what we're going to do. We would love to have you come if you want to come, but this is what we're doing. And it is a continual redefining. That's so true. And I hope that's an encouragement to people because it's no matter what season of life you're in, undoubtedly, there's going to be some kind of natural, okay, healthy friction between your family of origin and your second family. So let me ask you a question. and it's steeped in Christianity, if we're honest, right? Because it's the scripture that teaches honor your father and your mother. It is a first commandment with a blessing.

10:21 So here it is, a weighty question. How do you honor your mother and father, family of origin, by establishing your second family, boundaries, culture, priorities, and what you're going to be all about? Oh, that's such a good question. And don't you think if it had an easy answer, we would all be living it and walking it out in this perfect, beautiful harmony. But the first thing that comes to my mind is actually attitude. that what is your attitude towards your family of origin towards your siblings towards your parents step-parents is it an attitude of gratefulness or is it an attitude of disdain but i also think about the gift of time that what is the thought of honor honor is giving something that is valuable and expressing and showing value to others and i know i could do so many things for my parents I could send them money. I could, I don't know, send them on a trip.

11:25 All you could think of was send money. But when I call my mom and dad and have a conversation with them and continue to include them in our lives, that does more for my parents than just about anything. And having a genuine relationship with my sister and your sister as well. But that gift of time and conversation, I think is really significant. I can imagine what it will be like when our kids are grown and out of the house. I mean, we are closer to that than we know. And if they never included us in their lives. But I do think that is something that family of origin parents have to earn. That's not like other things. Honor is a given, whether it's deserved or not. But time is earned and deserved. Thank you for saying that. And I'll just make one quick follow-up comment from my own personal experience. And you acknowledged it even recently in my own journey is that I've recognized, and I think it's actually a measure of dishonor if we're not careful, I've had to almost find error in like family of origin to put in boundaries. In other words, to commit to our second family, it's almost like I have to be like, well, I disagree.

12:39 And so that's why we're going to, you know, I don't like how my mom or, you know, your parents. And so we're going to. And even recently, you've been like, hey, you don't need to do that. There's no need. I think part of honoring, too, is like loving your family of origin for who they are, not who you want them to be or who you wish them to be or you dream them to be, but just just who they are. and there's beautiful redemptive qualities that I think we can find in each other. And so that's something I'm working on. So let me ask you a question then, but how do we, and are we supposed to honor our parents and family of origin if they are dishonorable, if they are mean, if they are racist, if they are in prison, if they were abusive, if we look at them and say, your life isn't necessarily an honorable life, do we still need to give honor to our family of origin? Well, and I think that that's where We're not saying or sharing the idea that you need to honor dishonorable decisions or dishonorable actions.

13:38 That doesn't even make sense. But we are saying in things like gratitude that there's even a way for honor to play a part in someone's life that has been cloaked in dishonor. Like their life has been maybe inherently selfish and they've made decisions that have been very hurtful to you and your siblings or maybe to your father or to your mother or to your uncle or to your aunt. But I think there is still basic honor and basic honor is like, I wouldn't be alive without him. And I'm here. And I think that that I think we think honor is for the person we're honoring. I'd like to say it's just as much about you doing the honoring, which brings a level of joy. Yeah. To your own soul. As you're talking, I realized I watched my mom live this out in such a significant way. And I didn't even realize she was doing this.

14:35 My mom was born in 1951. So imagine growing up in the 50s and her dad was extremely bipolar. And this is, again, in the 50s where medications were not nearly what they are today to bring stability to a life. understanding. Yeah. Yeah. To a bipolar father. And so my mom just had a lot of instability with her dad. And then her parents got divorced when she was a teenager, but I watched the way my mom honored her dad. And we probably saw them one time a year, maybe twice. She'd call him maybe once a month. And it was a quick phone call. He didn't necessarily even want to talk to her a lot or have a lot to do with her. And I don't know what it did for him, but I know what it did for my mom was she was not the bitter daughter with a dysfunctional dad. She was a loving, kind, joyful daughter. And it did something so deep and significant in her. And I'm just now processing this in real time that she was really, really incredible in how she honored her dad.

15:36 And that's it. And it's so, it's so exciting to me because honor says, instead of sitting at home going, my dad never calls. My mom never calls. My grandmother never calls. Honor says, I'm going to call them. Even though they never call me, I'm going to call them. And they don't have to be honorable to practice honor. And that's, boy, that's a, I believe that to be a transcendent truth. Absolutely. And I think one of the things that we also need to focus on doing right is leaving actually our family of origin well. And I don't mean that we leave our family of origin. You and I still have great relationships with our parents. We have given them permission to. It's not a cutting off. Yeah, it's not a cutting off, but they're not our primary family anymore. You and I are each other's family, but leaving that family of origin well can be a very painful process. I think it's easier to just give your parents the double bird and to just say, see ya.

16:32 I just like that you said double bird. I know, right? I pictured it in my mind. see you guys i'm out and to begin to criticize and critique and be embittered towards the things that they did wrong into the shortcomings that they had even though they're humans and to leave that relationship with a fu mentality instead of leaving it with a thank you mentality and whatever it is that you need to thank your family board even if it's just thank you for giving me life if that's the only thing you have to be thankful for from your family of origin hey you know what that's a significant thing to be thankful for or thank you for feeding me thank you for clothing me thank you for that one time you were encouraging and it's very very real and even if that's an adopted family that's a beautiful relationship is is a thank you and leaving where do you hear these things that say you can't start something well until you've ended something well or what are the other cliches the way that you end something will determine the way that you start something and that we are ending that time of being an incubator of our family of origin well and i wonder if there are people who are stuck in their their 20s and 30s and not able to really let go of the pain of childhood i know and i know this can be a lot deeper than just saying a simple thank you but going on a journey to make sure that you have ended that season well which i believe starts with a thank you Yeah.

18:00 We got married so young, right? And the truth is a lot of people and probably very wisely, more normal, more normal. Don't get married till later. And sometimes don't get married at all. There is such a unique season of life that I think so many of our friends find themselves in where you aren't a part of your parents' family anymore, but you don't have a second family, which is a husband or a spouse and children. And so we end up needing to create a family of choice or a chosen family. How would you define that or what do you think of when I say that? Yeah, the chosen family to me is the incredible friendships we develop, which sometimes, and guilt can ensue, you feel a lot more bonded and closer sometimes to your chosen family than your family of origin.

19:01 Yeah, because the first time I heard the phrase family of choice, I will be honest, I really reacted to it. Really? Yeah, I actually remember where we were. I didn't know that. And I didn't like it. And I've been trying to figure out why. I realized this. I watched my parents bury all of their parents and realized that when you bury your parents, your siblings are the only people who are going to be burying their parents at the same time that you're burying your parents. And I think when I heard that family of choice expression, I saw that picture in my mind and I thought, what? We're just supposed to leave our siblings and forget about them to go for these friends and these roommates who we choose because it seems more happy and convenient and what's going to happen to us later on in life. If we have a mindset that we can choose family, that we can leave family and choose this group of friends, and then, well, those friends aren't serving us anymore. So then we're going to choose another group of friends and then we're going to choose another. What does that do to our heart, to our psyche that family actually was intended to be the most stable structure and system that we have to build our lives around? And then all of a sudden it's not because we can just choose it.

20:16 And we can choose to come and we can choose to go. I think of, you know, our background is Christians and evangelicals. There's this, you know, don't you touch the family, right? And so I do think there's like, wait a minute, is second family, chosen family, lessening your actual real family? Like, for instance, I've told friends before, like, yo, we're family. And I've had other friends push back and be like, yeah, but we're not. And it's important to remember that. It's like, oh, whoa. Okay, yeah, for sure. But then there are these deep, important, valuable life transforming relationships that are in the category of friend. And oftentimes you spend as you grow in life and get older in life, you spend far more time actually in your day to day, everyday life, particularly if it's proximity. Of course, I think the sensitivity that I feel and you feel is some people don't have a mom. They don't have a dad.

21:15 Dad's never been there or dad passed away when they were young. They've never met their mom. There's this extraordinary opportunity to go, yes, but you can have a chosen family. So there's a lot of hope and there's a lot of aspiration that's so very beautiful. Yeah. And it's exactly what you just said that caused me to change from my initial reaction of being a little bit taken aback by the phrase family of choice to really accepting it and being grateful for it and seeing the need of it. I know so many of our friends are not married and single and into their 30s and 40s, and they have done beautiful jobs of creating and developing a family of choice. And if you're going to replace a family, if you're not with your family of origin anymore and you don't have a second family anymore, we need our friends to become a family of choice. It's a necessity for us as human beings.

22:11 But people who are building a family of choice, how can we be intentional with that to meet the need that we have to have people who are close by? Yeah, well, I mean, if I had the curt, short, brief, brilliant, potent answer to that, I would publish a book immediately and it would sell hundreds of millions of copies. Even your question produces a level of mental and emotional fatigue, even as I sit here. And at 43 years old, I must say, navigating the Trinity, the family of origin, the second family, the chosen family, we'll call it the Trinity of top tier relationships in your life. And I must admit, these last couple of years where there has been a strain on nearly everything, but specifically relationships, I had a friend recently tell me, I've wanted to pull away from you. And when he said that, I was like, we need to be a little more honest. And I think people are feeling overwhelmed. They're feeling exhausted. They're feeling fatigued. I have felt a sense of, you know what? Screw it. I am going to hold Chelsea and love my kids, period. Right. And even though it's what your emotions want to do, you don't want a life down the line. That's the result of screw it. I'm just going to love either myself and my TV shows or myself and my wife and everybody else, you know, to heaven with you, you know, that that's not the life you want.

23:42 I hear you saying we don't want a life where we have a pattern that it is easy to leave relationships. I probably should expand that to say what I do believe in is relationships over everything that the relationships that we have. And I'm not talking of the hundred people, the 200 people who we know by name. Acquaintances. I'm talking about the 10 people who are close to who we do live life with on a consistent basis, including our sisters who we're both close to. That we don't want to live a pattern that is leaving those relationships easily, that those relationships are hard to leave. And when I think about what does it take to create a second family or a family of choice, the word intentionality comes to my mind. and I do think there are things that we can learn from the process of marriage that can inform the process of creating a family of choice wow and I think those two things would be leaving well that we have to leave where we have been well and the second would be actually vows not that you make friendship vows but words spoken to one another where you verbalize the commitment that you are making to a new relationship instead of just taking it as it comes that we're intentional with those new relationships. It's really a leaving and a defining. It's like committing to those two actions, like leaving well and defining well and defining meaning set expectations, you know, and also getting that chosen family to communicate. No, I reciprocate that. And I want to make that same commitment. And I think the older you get, which is so ironic, you know, here we are starting out, you know, early on in our forties, soon it'll be mid forties, But it's like, actually, you need to say it more.

25:25 You need to get better at defining relationships even more. But can I just stop for a moment? Because leaving well, what we need to celebrate for a moment, and if this is the only thing you get from this episode, it might be worth it. For everyone out there who's going through extraordinary pain because of a relationship that's either ending, transitioning, or being redefined. So by definition, you're leaving. If it's hard to leave, it's because you've done something right. So not wrong. And so I think these chosen family relationships, these friendships that change and oftentimes the out of the trinity of the top tier relationships, it's the chosen family that the door is a little bit more frequent in exiting and entering that that if that's hard, that's OK. And I know this sounds strange, but I'm talking to myself right now because we've had some changing chosen family relationships over the course of the last two and a half years.

26:21 It's been one of the most painful things in my life. But I've realized that the depth of pain that you and I have experienced is because we committed to give our heart to these relationships. And there's a detangling that just takes time and it is painful. And so this is one of those episodes where it's like, if this creates more pain for you, you might be doing it right and not wrong. Let me ask you another pointed question. If you had to distill the single most important either posture, disposition, character quality for all three of these levels of the highest, most important relationships we have, what would be yours? You asked for a number one and I'm going to give an example instead.

27:22 That's interesting. I think about how many times I need to hear from you, I love you. I mean, you probably tell me at least twice a day, at least in the morning, at least in the evening. I hope everyone heard that out there. You get it, guys. I'm pretty good at this. By saying that, I'm like, do I sound like a really needy person that I need to hear that time and time again? But I think I wonder if the reason that came to mind when you asked the question goes back to that level of intentionality of communicating the terms of our relationship. You know, for our marriage, we communicate the terms of our relationship. Literally said vows to each other for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part. But with that family of choice, communicating the terms of our relationship, which is you're a very important person to me. I need you in my life.

28:15 Hey, I have respect for who you are. I want to get to know who you are at the core. And by the way, you are welcome to speak feedback and input and accountability into my life. I'm an open book to you. You are the person who I call when I need crisis. Can you be that person for me? Those are painful, really vulnerable things to voice and to say. I mean, think about how nervous you were to propose to me. You, the man who's not nervous about anything. You got nervous to propose because it's saying, hey, can we take this relationship to another level? And I'm nervous that I'm going to be rejected. That's one of the most vulnerable things we can do as humans. But in that family of choice to actually voice those vows, voice those negotiations, voice that intentionality, and then rehearse them. And then as often as here I am 23 years later, still need to hear I love you, still need to hear you say, I'm so grateful I married you. Continuing to voice that intentionality with both of our second families and our family of choice.

29:12 And then I think voicing gratitude continually back to our family of origin. Boy, that is so interesting. I had a conversation with someone yesterday. And for those listening, you know, Chelsea and I are big proponents of therapy. And therapy has been a big part even of our journey in the last several years. But they said, I wonder sometimes if we're all going to therapists. And sometimes we're not going to each other. And these three really important layers of relationship and friendship. And saying things like, I feel really vulnerable right now. I feel scared. I feel unsafe with you. I feel like you don't see me. You know, all the things we say to our therapist, I wonder sometimes, like, we should also say to each other. Okay, having said that, I want to give what I think, whether it is your family of origin, whether it is your second family or your chosen family, there is an F word.

30:08 I think that must be in play in all of the varied dynamics, rooms, spaces, experiences, journeys, seasons. And that is forgiveness. I think it is of the highest order. It's right up there with gratitude and clear communication and vulnerability. It's forgiveness. I mean, listen, you ain't ever going to keep that family of origin long term without an ability to forgive. And I hope that it's more than cover up. I hope that it's more than pretend. Forgiveness says, I know what was done. I see it. I acknowledge it. Hopefully the person who did it or if I did it, we acknowledge it together and we look at each other and say, but it's forgiven. And now we keep moving forward.

31:01 And then you play that out, obviously, with the next two levels of tears of relationship. But I think it's twofold. It's not only forgiving what was done to you, because invariably, if you commit to these three layers of relationship at the highest level, you are going to get hurt. I can 100% guarantee you're going to get hurt, but you're also going to hurt. You're going to do some hurting. It's just the way it is. So not only do you have to forgive others, but I wonder sometimes if the hardest thing is to forgive ourselves, to forgive yourself for the wrong that you did. Oh, when I think about the things, mistakes I know I've done, particularly in parenting, so much easier to forgive the kids than it is to forgive the things that I know I didn't do perfect and right. And I love that you gave that as a toolkit because what forgiveness does is it keeps us staying in relationships. It keeps us out of a pattern of easily changing and exchanging relationships when it becomes hard or inconvenient or painful.

32:02 It keeps us in because there is a beautiful significance to relationships that last the distance. And they're not going to be all relationships, but the longer they last, the more precious and beautiful they become. And so not giving those up lightly. And when you say forgive, it doesn't mean always staying in a painful situation. There are times, especially when it comes to our family of origin, our second families, where there's abuse and things where we need to get out. So it doesn't mean we stay in it, but we let the pain go. And can I say just one last thing on, thank you for saying that because that's where I was going. Forgiveness for those that aren't good at it or like, I don't get it or I don't want to do it. It's fine, whatever. Let's just move on and pretend it never happened. Forgiveness is a gift and it's something that you give. It doesn't have to be earned. But you know what? Forgiveness can be a parting gift. Well said. It can be a gift you give to people you live life with, but it can be a gift you give to people that you're moving into a new, letting them go to a new chapter and you yourself go to a new chapter.

33:02 And so if you know how to give a gift, it's not always easy to give a gift because you wonder, will they receive it? But let's give that gift and all layers of relationship and love. Let's keep giving the gift of forgiveness. Agreed. And that will enable us to have those deep levels of family, whether it's our family of origin, having a healthy relationship with them, our second family and our families of choice. Will you pray for us as we conclude this episode? God, thank you. Thank you that you're here. Thank you that you're present. Thank you that you're available. Thank you that you're involved. And thank you that you said you put the solitary in families. You revealed yourself as a father. And so we trust you. Help us navigate these three levels of family. Give us the courage and the fortitude and the strength to communicate, practice gratitude and forgiveness.

33:57 I pray for everyone listening, the hurt and the pain that we have all experienced and the dynamics of these friendships and relationships. Honestly, it can be very overwhelming, God, but I pray you'd comfort us. I pray you'd heal us and give us the energy to get up again and move towards people in relationship. Amen. Amen.

34:23 This has been a presentation of OBB Sound, SB Projects, and Cadence 13. Executive produced by Chelsea Smith, Judah Smith, Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Elias Tanner, Scooter Braun, Scott Manson, James Shin, and Chris Corcoran. Produced by Grace Delia. Co-produced by Kyle Vanuja of SB Projects. Produced by Lauren LaGrasso and Serena Reagan of Cadence 13. Edited, mixed, and mastered by Adam Macias Original composition by Colin Gilliard Production support from Rachel Cruz OBB Sound is an OBB Media Company Cadence 13 is an Odyssey Company