Tackling Insecurity with Vulnerability

4:05 of sense to me and really gets me going because I think conversely, I can speak to being married to you. And when it comes to the pragmatics, the practicality, the planning, the putting skin and bone to an idea and a vision and a concept and a dream, there's a high, high talent and a high gifting in that area. And I'll be in meetings with you and have been for 22 years where what I do to insulate myself or protect myself from the insecurity is honestly make jokes and check out. And you know, that's the truth. And I have frustrated so many meetings, but I think if I'm honest in the same way you go to the bathroom and give yourself five minutes, I go to the deflection of comedy and then let everybody in the room know I'm not good at the details. But really what that is, is that's a tell. And I'm covering up for my own insecurities in that once I get a vision, a dream, an idea, a concept, let's go do the change of world. Like I actually don't know the next step. I literally, it's not in my DNA to be like, what's the next step? In fact, I share this massive dream that just like consumes me. And then Chelsea will be like, all right, what's the next step? And it's like my helium balloon just got popped and all the air comes out. But what it is, it's actually really a mask for insecurity because I'm not good at that.

5:23 So where do you think insecurities come from and how would you define insecurity? I would say you feel vulnerable because you feel like you're incapable or you're not at the level of what you perceive everybody in that moment around you to be. And all of a sudden you feel, I guess in a way, it's the imposter syndrome. I guess in a way it's like, oh, I don't fit here. I don't belong here. I can't function here. I can't work here. I can't live at this level. I can't sustain this. I'm a fraud. I'm a fake. I'm making this up is where I go. I think it's different from imposter syndrome in the sense that imposter syndrome has to do with I don't belong here. Whereas insecurities is like there's something flawed on the inside of me that no matter where I go, that still goes with me. And so it's almost probably even a level deeper than imposter syndrome because it exists no matter where we are. I think it's a vulnerability. It's a critical inner voice.

6:20 It's a voice inside of us that says we're not good enough. And it follows you no matter where you are. Different from imposter syndrome. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So no matter the context, oftentimes that weakness shows up. I'll say this, like if anyone clicked on this episode and is like, I don't really know if insecurity relates to me. It's like, oh, oh, man. Yes, it does. There is not a single person alive that doesn't have an area of weakness, an area where you feel vulnerable. You feel unsafe. You feel like you're not enough. You feel like what you bring to the table in this area is inadequate. I'll give you, for instance, and this is very personal. I, over time as a public communicator, have been a little bit kind of defined as the funny guy and the storyteller, right? So it's like, make some jokes, tell some story. Recently, a friend of mine is like, bro, the first 20 minutes, all you talked about was Gatorade, because I was just fascinated recently with this Gatorade slogan. And let's be honest, you're entertaining yourself. I was. Nothing beats Gatorade. Guys, that's the motto for Gatorade. I'm like, well, you can use that for anything. So I spent 20 minutes in a sermon laughing about nothing beats Gatorade, and then go on to preach a sermon. But I have played into that a little bit, because where I feel insecure is like, well, do I not do exegetical approach to scripture? Do I not know the Hebrew, the Greek, Aramaic? Am I not skilled? Am I not? And you start to question yourself. And I think there is an insecurity. Even in the intellectual Christianity category, I feel like, well, maybe I don't measure up. Maybe I'll just lean in to be the funny guy.

7:56 Maybe I'll lean in to be the storytelling guy. And I'll just kind of abdicate that and pretend like I'm not smart to insulate myself so I don't feel more vulnerable. I find that so fascinating because you are one of the greatest public speakers, communicators, you're brilliant, that you would have- You have to believe that when you're married to me, but I appreciate that. And I listen to you all the time. And you sleep with me. I find it fascinating that you're so gifted and quote unquote accomplished in this area, but there's still insecurities surrounding the details of this area. And I think that brings about one of the biggest lies about insecurity. And that is that you can success your way out of being insecure. That if I'm successful enough, then I won't feel an insecurity. So for me, I would compensate for small talk probably with school and intellectualism. And think if I can be successful enough at school, and if I can learn enough and I can have deep enough conversations, then I won't be insecure about small talk.

8:54 But here I am 43, everything I've tried to do to try to compensate for that insecurity, to try to success my way out of it, it actually still hasn't helped. and it's still there. So then, quick example, I'm looking at your on-site water bottle and we went to therapy at on-site. So grateful for on-site. And do you remember the moment when the therapist was like, Judy, you're doing it again. You're using comedy as a deflection. Do you feel vulnerable? Are you insecure? And I said, no, I'm fine. And you totally were. Oh, totally was. So, okay, we've identified something here. This is real for all of us. And hopefully for people listening, this relates. Well, then if you can't success your way out, which I think in a way you and I are an example, there is some measure of success that I think is perceived at least, and that hasn't solved your insecurity or mine. So then what solves it? Is it supposed to be solved?

9:55 And what are the steps we take? I'm actually asking you. Yeah. I think the biggest thing that gives the most traction to solving insecurity is actually so paradoxical that it's hard to do. And that is that vulnerability and honesty about our insecurities is probably the best way to get some level of traction to seeing some change in those areas. And I am so glad you went there because honestly, I know there's more, But to me, that's it. That is it. Amongst me and my closest friends, babe, you know, who in some cases have friends that are some of the most accomplished people, probably in the world, if I could say. And yet what we're learning to do is actually as simple as it sounds when we're all together and someone says something, make instantly in real time out yourself and be like, it kind of makes me feel vulnerable.

10:57 I feel a little unsafe right now. guys, I don't feel like I belong. And it has been the only thing. And obviously we find the confidence and courage to do so because Jesus welcomes brokenness and he welcomes humility. But it just means the world that you said that. Because right now, as I sit here as a 43-year-old married to you for 22 years, that has brought the most progress and the most movement in my life in this area of insecurity. And actually, I think one of the greatest things about getting older is you realize this isn't going to change. Small talk is always going to be something that's going to be awkward for me. And so by admitting that to myself and then in turn admitting it to others, I couldn't do that when I was 22 because I felt like I had something to prove. I had to prove that I was good at small talk, even though I'm not. Why couldn't I just admit it? And talk about regrets in life. If there is any regrets I have, it is that I wish I could have admitted my insecurities sooner because I think that I could have gotten over them quicker.

11:57 I don't know if we ever get over them, but I could have got a handle on them sooner if I would have just said, hey, I feel really insecure about this. I feel inadequate in this area. I feel vulnerable when this happens. And brought that up as a means to actually getting some handles on insecurity. I think insecurity, it's like an on-ramp. We think on-ramping people, if connecting with people is one of the most valuable things in the world, and it is. I mean, that's what we're attempting to do with this podcast. It's what we're attempting to do in our marriage. It's what's attempting to do our kids, our friends, our church, community. Like it's connection, connection, connection. Connecting with someone is like an on-ramp to your soul, to your heart, to your life, to your thinking, to your worldview, to your problems, to your challenges. I think we keep thinking that the on-ramp is more money. The on-ramp is like renowned. The on-ramp is more followers. The on-ramp is cool clothes. The on-ramp is like dancing and a cool dance. The on-ramp is like being TikTok famous. What's the on-ramp?

12:58 And actually, we've stumbled today onto maybe the part of insecurity we're not talking about enough is what is a more true on-ramp into your life and connection point than shared insecurities and vulnerability. I have found so much connectivity around, bro, you feel insecure about that too? So do I. Well, and it's a sign of trust and trust is the building blocks of relationships, or as you called it, the on-ramp of relationships. It's a sign of trust to be able to actually open up your heart and share something that you feel insecure or inadequate about and to bring somebody into that inside. Because those are tender places. Something that we feel insecure, it's sensitive. If somebody has that information about me and they want to do me harm, they have access to a very tender part of me that all they have to do is say, oh my gosh, Chelsea, you made that person feel so bad and so awkward in that conversation. They couldn't wait to get out of it with you. And boy, that will just crumble me. And so being vulnerable enough to share and open our insecurities with other people is an incredible gift of trust that we can bring into a relationship.

14:17 I want to ask you a question. Oh. Where do you think insecurities come from? Do they come from inside of us? Do they come from circumstances outside of us? You know, it's been said this quote that nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. But where does that sense of inferiority come from? I mean, I never gave a consent to feel inferior about my small talk. Where does it come from? I think a little bit of both, doesn't it? I think there's this inherent feeling in certain areas. You know, for me, it started very early with math, for instance, right? I was like, two plus two is four. Everything after that's been really hard for me. It's like four plus four is eight, you know, and then like anything bigger than that.

15:12 And I started to mask it. I cheated radically in middle school on math. I just went to the back of the book where it had all the answers. By the way, thank you. Whatever publisher out there had math books with answers in the back. That was supposed to, you had to fill out the formula on the whole process. Oh yeah, no, I could never show my work. But then I would talk my way out of it to the math teacher. I'm like, ah, the reason I don't, you know, because I like to talk. But insecurity started almost immediately. I was like, whoa, when they added letters to the numbers and I was supposed to know, I still to this day, it's literally like the deepest foreign language somewhere in the Amazon jungle. Like I cannot understand it. Algebra and the complexities of it. And so all of a sudden I was like, I'm looking in the classroom and I'm just looking around. I'm going, everybody's got their head down. They're doing the work. We're doing a test. We got 30 minutes. And I just drew a picture of Magic Johnson on my test and got in big trouble. I won't get into that story. But for me, it started very early learning that my brain wasn't good at this or that. but it was also like rooted in the internal life.

16:11 Like, no, I'm really not good at that. And there was this feeling that I was supposed to. Can I ask you a question? Sure. If you were in a situation where suddenly you realize you're not good at something and inherently you're not, and then you're surrounded with what seems like a bunch of people who are good at it and you're expected to be good at it. Well, what do we do with that? Because you asked me, which is it? And I just think it's both. I think it's inherent, but I also think it's context too. I think insecurity comes from when our internal voice of things that we aren't good at collide with something that somebody either says or that we compare ourselves. I think it's when the internal and the external combine is when there is a deep insecurity. I have an older sister growing up. She always got the diligence award. I don't know why we got a character quality every year.

17:04 And my older sister got diligence every single year, like three years in a row. It was so funny. And I'm a hard worker. I'm just different from my sister. So I never got the diligence award. I have amazing parents, but they're not perfect. Growing up, I think one of the things that they did, I hope they don't listen to this mom and dad. Sorry, I'm hurting your feelings. But one of the things they did probably in comparing me to my sister was I'd get called lazy every once in a while. And I left my shoes all over. I was not good at picking up my room, which is odd because we keep a really clean house now. But my parents would call me lazy. And it's like there was something on the inside of me, like I felt like I didn't have the same drive as my sister. And so when that collided with the external words of my parents, that created an insecurity in me. And I think about small talk, and it's when something on the inside of me that, oh, I don't feel like I'm great at that. But when it collided with the comparison with you who are so good at that, that creates an insecurity.

18:01 So I think it's when the internal and external collide. In the collision, when the collision happens, right? Obviously, it's one thing if you're 11, 14, it's hard to describe a collision. And it's hard to, now in our 40s, what do you do at that intersection? Because a couple of concerns I have, I found a lot of people in that intersection. And actually, it's not entirely truthful. I started to get the feeling at a young age, The only class I aced was Bible class in my respective Christian school. Bible class, I did very well. Well, I had a knack for stories. The Bible made sense to me. Part of that was probably how God made me. But I started to believe I was dumb. In fact, I was on a call recently with a business mentor. And I was like, you know, I don't understand this. And he goes, you have to stop saying this. He did this in his late 30s. He's like, you are very good at this.

18:54 You're very skilled at this. And I don't want you to say that. I'm 43 and my friend still has to say that to me. And you came home and that meant so much to you. You probably told me about that eight times. And I just brought it up on the podcast for that very reason. So make it nine. But it was significant to you because it spoke to something that you believed about yourself. Totally. To be inadequate or insecure. So then what would be your answer? I mean, obviously it's nice to have my friend Michael tell me about that, but not everyone's going to have Michael there when they need him at that intersection to go, no, it's not true. Or maybe in some cases it is true. You're not good at this and you've collided with a situation that's reminding you you're not good. What do we do? Oh, I think if there was an easy answer to that, then all of our insecurities would be gone and life would be lollipops and butterflies. Sounds like Charlie and the chocolate factory. I couldn't remember. I think for me, it's letting go of perfection and it's letting go of a perception that we're actually going to be good and perfect at everything. It actually probably comes down to acceptance. But once we're vulnerable about something and realizing this is what I'm insecure about, that we actually have the courage to accept it and realize probably never going to be good at small talk. And I'm still going to end up in situations where I am expected to do small talk.

20:19 So I'm going to learn some tools. I'm going to learn some questions to ask people and have some people coach me. I literally ask you sometimes when we're driving to places. So what are some questions that I should be asking such and such and so-and-so? You really do. It's incredible. And so having that acceptance and then letting that acceptance actually teach us and put us in a place of humility where we can learn, but then no, I'm never going to be great at it. I'm just, I'm going to get some tools to get by, but realizing that's not how God made me to be. If God wanted me to be an incredible small talker, he would have made me that way. But he didn't. He wanted me to be somebody who maybe thinks a little bit different or likes to analyze and go deep with things if I don't know how to go broad with things. And that's okay. Is that a cop-out? No. I love this idea of acceptance. And I am debating right now in real time of whether or not to share a story and an interaction I had with one of my heroes, who's also a celebrity. So this could sound incredibly like I'm name dropping, but I love this person, admire this person so much.

21:24 They're going to remain nameless. But I was at a Grammy rehearsal, actually, watching a friend rehearse for the Grammys and a parent of a young man who was rehearsing, who's very well-known, who I respected. My heart was pounding. I love this person. Look up to this person. And I had just noticed that this person's kids were so confident. I mean, like confidence at a level that I had rarely, if ever seen it, that point, we had been youth pastors working with teenagers and parents for a decade. And so I got up the courage as I'm standing next to this world-renowned, famous person. And I said, can I ask you, what do you teach your kids to be so confident? And it really has a lot to do with acceptance. And he said this, we focus even in their school, and both of them were tutored and homeschooled on what they're good at. They don't even do the subjects they're not good at. Now, again, I'm not saying this is a rule for parents, whatever. I'm just going to make a point here that's actually incredibly extreme. But if they weren't good at math, they just focused on the subjects they were good at. Because this particular parent and person thought like their future is going to be more based on what they're good at and what makes sense to them and works with them.

22:35 And that really resonated with me. And it gets all the way back to an ancient letter that this guy named Paul, who was an apostle in the Christian church, he writes to this young man named Timothy in his second letter to Timothy. It's my life verse, my life passage. And he says to Timothy, who's got this massive church at the time, is feeling insecure, getting a lot of criticism. He says, you therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. Translation for ancient ornate language, accept what you're great at because God gave you that greatness and enjoy that. And don't focus or obsess over what you naturally just aren't as good at. And there is that acceptance. And it's wild. I haven't thought about that story in so long. Obviously, that verse of scripture I think about often. But connecting that to this idea of acceptance is beautiful. What would you say to people who are like, I just can't accept it?

23:31 I think that's a hard place to be in. Because, I mean, I'd say probably go get counseling. Go talk to a professional. because if you are in a place where you can't accept something about yourself, that isn't up to a standard that you are the one sitting there for yourself. I think that's a place for a lot of heartbreak and a lot of lack of fulfillment and lack of happiness. And if you can't like yourself, if you can't accept yourself the way you are, how are you going to be happy? You're just going to have a life striving. And And that just doesn't sound like a fulfilling life to me. The teachings of Jesus, love your neighbor as yourself. Implicit in that language is the idea of the acceptance of yourself, the loving of the way God made you and who you are. And boy, that's hard in the technological age because we're constantly fed images, stories, concepts, statements, and ideas about everyone else's grand, wonderful life.

24:35 and we start to minimize our own and think that our journey, our steps, our physical attributes aren't as important. And I think from where we sit, we believe just the opposite because of how we see the world through the view of God and his goodness. And I love that scripture that says, we're fearfully and wonderfully made that God knew us before we were even formed in our mother's womb, which is a mystery that is certainly beyond me. but this idea of loving who you are and the life that God's given you is no small thing and it can be incredibly challenged. And so getting help, maybe I guess we're circling back and you're saying, maybe you start there. Maybe you admit that I'm having a hard time accepting myself. Yeah. I don't like this aspect of who I am. And maybe that's where your vulnerability starts. Begins. Begins just to say, I'm not good at this and I don't like this about myself. and I wish I could change, but I don't think I can.

25:34 And you could use all this effort into bettering something about yourself that's never gonna be great instead of putting your incredible energy and effort into leaning into the things that you can do and the things that you are great at. And I mean, as somebody who believes in creator God, I just think we are created for purpose. And that is where I'd ultimately lean to. Heard one great philosopher say one time, Why be a cheap imitation of someone when you were born an original? When I think of practical takeaways for dealing with insecurity, two things come to mind. The first is we all have a default that we lean to when we feel insecure. in those moments where we feel insecure when we feel inadequate we all have a reaction yours is a bathroom and mine is comedy attempted comedy by the way no i think you're funny a bathroom like that was a situational default but i have an internal default and that is i get very quiet when i feel insecure i just don't talk and interestingly when i look back in high school people thought i was stuck up and mean because i would felt insecure junior high girls used to tell I mean, you know, Chelsea Smith, she's so stuck up.

27:03 But it was because- We went to middle school together, folks. And by the way, this is in the 90s when stuck up was like the meanest thing you could tell somebody. But looking back, I wish I would have known about myself. But no, when I feel insecure, I get quiet. So that I would have had the tools to be perceived differently and to do something. What's your default when you feel insecure? Yeah, it's probably deflection of some kind. and that deflection sometimes results in what I would call being complicit. I'll just be agreeable and I'll end up agreeing. I'll end up being quiet on things that I know I shouldn't be quiet. You don't get quiet, but you get, you don't. Yeah, yeah. Quiet's not the right word, is it? You don't speak up for things that you know you should speak up for. And I think humor. I'm not honest sometimes when I'm insecure. I think humor is really true. I know a lot of my friends who, when they feel insecure, they get extremely talkative. And I think that's something to be very aware of. So whatever your insecure default is, what you default to when you feel insecure, being aware of that can be such a helpful way to accept that. And saying that to somebody, saying that to a loved one, saying that to a family member, saying that to a therapist, hey, I want to work on identifying, here's what I do when I get insecure. Again, insecurity, The moment you say, I'm insecure when, or I feel insecure right now, you really suck the poison out of insecurity.

28:33 And all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait, I can move forward here. I can make some progress here. That really is the big monumental proverbial jump off the cliff is just starting to go, hey guys, I'm feeling really insecure right now. Doesn't matter how old you are, how successful you are. That is a really, really valuable practice. Yeah. I think the second really practical takeaway for dealing with insecurity is as much as possible, eliminating comparison. Oh, man. Comparing yourselves amongst yourselves in so doing, you are not wise, the scripture says. I mean, I think about if I would have married, I'm glad I didn't marry anybody different. But if I would have married somebody who had the same small talk skills I have, I probably wouldn't be insecure about it. I'd probably feel like that. I'm pretty good at this compared to my husband. Yeah.

29:25 But whether it's comparison on Instagram, in the life that we perceive that other people are living, or comparison in the workplace, and it seems like our coworkers just make this look so easy, but we have to strive over it. Eliminating that as much as possible. I know we have to live in the world with people, but if we can eliminate that, that will really help us to accept our insecurities. Yeah. I hadn't felt bad about cheating in middle school and high school, which I didn't do a lot, but I definitely did. Until recently, we were talking to one of our kids and I was like, Hey, I cheated. And literally Chelsea goes, I never cheated. And me and our child looked over at her in the bedroom. We're like, wow, we get it. We feel great now. But it is true. You didn't cheat. So it was an honest assessment. Because you're trying to put the we in there. It's like, hey, don't include me. That's right. I did. That's such good parenting. You know, your mother and I, we have cheated. And you're like, no, I didn't.

30:18 Oh, my word. It's so funny. 22 years of marriage, parenting teenagers, and you say you didn't cheat. And immediately a little insecurity sneaks in. And it's like, dude, you cheated. She didn't. What's wrong with you? This is real life. And to think that we're impervious to insecurity is just absolutely ridiculous. We're all affected by this and we need each other. You want to get on like one big, massive 7 billion person Zoom call so that we can all say, everybody insecure, raise your hand. And like all 7 billion people living on this little blue and green planet called Earth can raise their hand and go, we're all insecure. And that would somehow, we think, level the playing field. But, you know, we are who we are and it's very easy to compete and compare. It's just normal and natural. So to fight that, we're going to have to out ourselves, aren't we? Yeah, we will.

31:10 But we can do it. And it is something that I think we do fight our whole lives, but it does get better. And these tools really, really can make a difference in eliminating insecurity. And in conclusion, just wanting to say insecurity is what makes it so real is you feel unsafe. You feel vulnerable. You feel uncovered. You feel like there's no more boundaries or fences or anything protecting you or keeping you. And this is very natural. This is a real thing. And sometimes we just want to draw the shades in life and not deal with our weaknesses. That doesn't make you a bad person. We all feel like hiding. We all feel like pretending. And I just want to normalize for everyone listening, thank you. And for you specifically who clicked on this episode about insecurity because you feel maybe paralyzed by your shortcomings and weaknesses, and you're doing everything in your power to cover them up so nobody sees them.

32:13 I got good news. You don't have to do that exhausting work anymore. We are believing that God's going to give you an environment with some friends, some loved ones, or even a therapist where you can say, here's where I'm really at. Can I remind you one more thing? The first question God ever asked me in the Hebrew Bible in Genesis is, where are you? Where are you? And in a weird sort of way, this podcast ends with, where are you? Are you fearful, worried, vulnerable, insecure? That's okay. That's where you are, and God's going to meet you there. and I believe you're going to experience a greater depth, meaning and fulfillment in life. Let me pray. God, thank you. Thank you that you see us exactly where we are. As much as we want to tell ourselves we're not, tell others that we're not, we are here again, broken. We got shortcomings, weaknesses and proclivities that sometimes feel like there's nothing we can do about them and we feel so inadequate.

33:12 but I thank you. You made us, you created us and designed us with inherent value and meaning and purpose. And you made us just the way we are. And so we trust you with that. God, help us now. Give us the strength and stamina and courage just for today to be transparent and forthright with our insecurities and our vulnerabilities. Thank you for the strength and courage to do that. We're just going to live today. And thank you for the strength to do it.