The Adventure of Life with Churchome's David Kroll

4:00 and aspirations were. How did that go down and what was your answer? Yeah, and I could tell when she asked the question. Like, you know, when somebody asks a question and you get just enough of an equine to know what kind of answer they're looking for. That was kind of what happened. So it's on our first date and she asks me this question. She's like, hey, so what do you want to do with your life? And I know she was looking for the big grandiose vision. But to be honest, I'd been through a decent amount of, which is called life. And I know many of us have been through a decent amount of life. But at a young age, I had already experienced a good amount of the realities of the pain and the hardship of the world. And as I was telling her my response to this grandiose question, I knew that it was going to be underwhelming a hundred percent because my honest answer is I had no clue at that point. Now, prior points in my life, I had had a hundred percent clarity on what I wanted to do or what I wanted to be or where I wanted to be at certain stages or key points of age or, you know, marriage with kids or what kind of home I want to have, how much money I want to be making all of those things.

5:04 and life had thrown so many wrenches in my plans at that point that I realized that this big, beautiful life that we get to live for those of us who have chosen to follow the person of Jesus, it looks a lot less linear than it does on paper or in our minds. So my response was something to the effect of, you know, I don't really know, but I think I kind of found a way to repair it somewhat to give her some hope that I still was a pretty, a decently motivated guy that if she was to end up with me. I was going to work hard and be able to provide for a family and kids. But yeah, it was not the answer that she was looking for to such a big question. Like, what do you want to do? I want to talk about when you first met Jesus, because your story is so different from mine and Judah's growing up. And Judah and I obviously grew up in church. Our parents introduced us when we were in the nursery together and we fell in love and got married. We have a very unique story for you. Your relationship with Jesus started in a very different way. Yeah, it really did.

5:59 You know, I grew up in a Jewish household. So the concept of Jesus was very far off for me. Not in a bad way. It just was not what our household was really about. And so love my family, have an amazing mom, amazing dad. I'm in the middle of three kids, have an older brother, younger sister, really motivated. My dad is a really successful attorney and has done a great job within business and is really sharp, switched on. My mom, same thing. I believe when they first met, I think my mom was even more successful in her career. at that point than my dad and really just a driven, motivated family. And I very much appreciate that. But because of that, I was exposed to a lot of, I would say, really successful individuals within whatever their respective fields are growing up, just given kind of my parents' community. And so I always growing up, we kind of had this mentality of my purpose in life was to make as much money as possible to marry the most beautiful girl on the world, which I think I still succeeded at that. Thank you so much. But there was this massive bit of fear, I would say, that really clenched me from a young age. I remember there was a family friend of ours and their mother passed away. And it was the first time I thought about death. And I was probably, guys, only eight years old. But that thought of death really took hold of me. And death in my mind was this darkness and this nothingness. And it brought so much fear and anxiety that I kind of just tried to keep really active even at my young age I thought about very deep things like that but I would never tell anybody I share this with my mom recently she almost felt this guilt like oh my gosh I had no idea because I wouldn't tell anybody that so success for me was the driver and performance and found myself actually doing a wide array of really random things I was an Irish step dancer if you've ever seen river dance before did that for a while and ended up competing around the world and you wait you can't you David knows I'm jumping in here because I couldn't wait for this juncture in the journey. You have to tell us what was your world ranking? At one point I was ranked number seven in the world. That's individually. Your team was ranked what in the world? Number one. Number one in the world. It's a really normal thing for a young Jewish kid to get into, you know, is Irish step dancing. We won't divert. David, you can move your feet

8:11 faster than any human. I can't even begin to explain. When I discovered this about David at the time I was leading a lot of our youth gatherings. And you can imagine how many times I would ask David Kroll to come up. And David, without fail, would jump on the stage. And the moment he started moving his feet, the entire room would erupt. I kind of appreciate that all this for me happened before the era of social media because it kind of goes under the radar. They're not like, oh yeah, hey, you're that guy. No, not that I am ashamed of it whatsoever. I love what I did. But yeah, I mean, it was so that was really the focus for me was, OK, maybe these things are going to fulfill me. And how can I parlay this into kind of success in a career or whatnot? And which fast forward, you know, none of that stuff really was working. And so I kind of I took the traditional pass in high school of kind of getting out there and partying and having a lot of different things exposed to me. But my senior year of high school, a couple of people invited me to something called Young Life, which I was not that familiar with at the time.

9:11 But I knew it was a Jesus thing. But here's literally the two things I knew about Jesus at this juncture. It's that I was not supposed to believe in him and that we use his name as a cuss word. And if you would have asked me literally anything else, I knew nothing about who Jesus was, except the Christians follow him and believe he's God. That's it. And I'm not supposed to believe in him. Wow. So my first time I did decide to go to Young Life, it was the first time I heard about the person of Jesus. And it was a story in the book of Matthew where Jesus is on a boat with his disciples And there's this great storm that comes upon them and they're all freaking out. Jesus is asleep in the boat. They wake him up freaking out, which I can very much relate to given what I just said about fear and kind of placing myself in that boat. Jesus wakes up, calms the storm, looks at his friends. It's like, Hey, don't you guys have any faith? And something happened in that moment for me where the concept of having faith in something other than my ability to accomplish was a really freeing thought of, Oh my gosh, I could maybe believe in something bigger than myself. And so I got my hands on a Bible and I just found myself consuming stories about who Jesus was. And obviously given my history of even, you know, being Jewish growing up and studying for Bar Mitzvah and my familiarity with some of the Hebrew scriptures really felt like, I believe that this is the Messiah and that Jesus is who he says he is and that he's God. Kneel by my bedside one day and only words I got out were, Jesus, I need you, and started crying and went to bed that night. And I genuinely, you know, I know not everybody kind of has this transformative experience, but for me, it truly was. And woke up the next day and felt like a completely different person. And yeah, since that point, a lot has been pretty different in my life, you could say. But at that point, if somebody would have told you, you'd end up as a CEO of a Christian church, what would your response have been?

10:57 I mean, even the concept of like CEO and church, like I wouldn't have known what to do with that And my familiarity with faith constructs and religious organizations was still, thankfully, honestly, was at about a zero. So honestly, early on, I was so transformed by God. I'm pretty sure anything that I could have done to help love people and show them the love of God in their lives, I would have been down. But I did not think by any means that this was the path that I would end up at. And yeah, I never thought I'd be the CEO of a church. And I love what you said when Jenna asked you that question, what are your ambitions in life that you said by that point, how old were you when you and Jenna went on your first date? I was 24 when we went on our first date. Okay. So for a 24 year old to say some wrenches had been thrown at you and you'd been essentially beat up enough by life to not have a plan. What happened between those years of meeting Jesus and sitting down with Jenna and saying, ah, I don't really know how much of a dream or plan I have for life?

11:57 Yeah. You know, a lot of things. I think, you know, one of the first things was even my coming to faith, as you could imagine, was not the most popular concept around some of my family. And so the initial phases of me starting to follow Jesus weren't exactly, you know, not everybody was celebrating. And so that brought its own unique challenges. And then I really felt, and I use this language and I realize this is Christian kind of faith language, but I felt led or I felt kind of called, you could say, to go to Seattle. And I had a variety of different paths that could have gone down. I could have joined a show like Riverdance or Lord of the Dance. I had opportunity to go to great schools for dance or to other colleges that were a little bit more esteemed even than the paths that I chose to go down. And I went to a great school, but I really felt called to go to Seattle. And it was the first time I'd experienced that in my life. And so that kind of brought me out of that difficult season, but it was kind of on my own within those initial stages of my faith journey. And then even fast forward to post-college, there was a girl who I had been, gosh, dear friends with since I was 10 years old. And we dated all through college and got married right out of college.

13:01 Whoa. So how old were you? Man, I got married when I was 21 years old. Whoa. Same with us. Now looking back, such babies. Such babies. Yeah. Right. But you think, you know, everything. And people tell you that, like, I still remember, I believe my dad told me, you know, like, you think, you know, and I was like, absolutely. And now I look back, I'm like, nah, he was a hundred percent right. And we were, we were married for a few years and I got a job with an investment banking. And so we had moved and we're living on the other side of the country. One day I was away on a business trip and I got a phone call from her saying, Hey, I don't want to be married anymore. And I was so perplexed by that and just totally in shock. Did you see that coming at all? Were there any warning signs or was it just a complete surprise? You know, looking back, I've asked myself that many times. It was a complete surprise. And should it have been? I mean, one would hope it wouldn't be. For me, it was a complete shock and surprise. Yeah. And I'd spent the next six months basically sick to my stomach, doing everything I could trying to pursue her and repair the marriage. But it takes two to desire that. And I desired that and she didn't. But prior to that phone call, did you feel like you were doing everything? And I'm using air quotes that people can't see quote unquote, right in life that you'd graduated from college. You're pursuing this job, but knowing you, I'm sure you were working hard. You married your college sweetheart. Did it feel like you had done all the right things? Yeah. I mean, I never thought my story would be that at 23 years old, I would be divorced and everything on paper prior to that point was pointing in the complete opposite direction. I mean, I got a job in 2008, which is the complete crash of the markets in investment banking, which this is when Bear Stearns, Landon Brothers were going under.

14:50 And so it was kind of semi-miraculous that I was able to get these jobs when everybody falling off these big ships is looking for jobs. And here I am, this 21-year-old kid right out of college, getting an amazing job as an investment banker when some of the greatest investment bankers who have been around the business for 20, 30, 40 years are all looking for a job. Somehow I land this job. So everything had, you know, had kind of fallen into its perfect place for me. And it was a complete shock. And it upended everything in my life, 100%. Because you had moved out to be close to her family. So you were living in a different city away from your family. Your job was there. I just can't imagine how it felt like the bottom fell out of life in that moment. I mean, I found myself and I, you know, I haven't shared this with too many people, But I found myself at some points thinking if one more thing happens right now, I don't know if I'm going to make it. Just one more thing, one more thing.

15:43 And, you know, even close to the point of even thinking about ending my life within certain moments. And I don't think I was maybe as close as I felt like I was in certain moments. But the pain was that real. And I think people always looked at me and thought, oh, he's going to do great things. And so this reckoning in between how is my world coming crashing down right now? And it's not what I want, but I literally can't control it. There's nothing I can do, no matter how hard I try, no matter what I do. It's outside of my control. And that was a pretty helpless feeling. Were you mad at God at that point? Or did you feel like you had been doing all the right things by him? That's a good question. And he let you down? Or how did your faith play into that season of your life? Yeah, I wasn't mad at God at all. My faith saved my life is the short answer to that question. Because for months, I was trying to pursue reconciliation in this marriage, which is what I believed, what God wanted. And, you know, I was fighting for this relationship and I love this woman. And I literally was driving in my car one night alone, crying, listening to music. And I literally just felt, this maybe only happened two or three times in my life, but I literally felt God almost say, it's okay, let go. And I just heard that voice in my head. It's okay, let go. And that's when I let go. And I agreed to kind of sign the divorce papers and transition along. But God, it was God and community. It was people in my life who cared enough to fly from LA to Seattle and to come say, Hey, I'm going to come stay the week with you and be with you. It was friends who said, Hey, I'm going to come from Nashville. I'm going to come from New York. I'm going to come from DC. And I had friends come from all over just to kind of come be with me. And that was an incredible gift. I've never struggled with being mad at God. And I don't know why that is. It's just not the way I'm hardwired, I think. So I didn't really blame him, I just looked to him and he was my everything because I felt so isolated, so alone. And I think for really the first time in my life, I felt a complete dependency on God to get through this season.

17:39 I am so excited about even your willingness to be so vulnerable here on In Good Faith, David. I think a lot of people would probably assume when turning this episode on that it's like, oh, you know, Jude and Chelsea lead church home, and this is the CEO who runs it. And so I'm sure they're going to be talking about church home. But actually, that wouldn't be the case as much as it's your journey and your story has meant so much to me personally. You have had a huge impact on my perspective of the significance and the validity of Jesus as the promised Messiah, the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Hebrew scripture.

18:36 There are so many points in your journey where you shouldn't be who you are. So when you look at the whole of your life and you're still in your 30s, but in a lot of ways, your pain, your loss, the pinnacle moments you've had, it's as if you're 70 something, you know, you've really had a pretty wild life to this point. What, in fact, has been the secret sauce? Yeah, my first reaction to that, and I don't know if this is the right answer. I just think it's been really representatively true in my life. And I think it goes back to what Jenna asked me on our first date. And what I was trying to say to her is that I've given up trying to see too much into my future and trying to plan too much into my future. But I believe it's all about that next step. You know, Jesus says it in Matthew chapter six, verse 27. Right.

19:27 the lilies of the field. And he kind of goes on to talk about the fact that every day has enough trouble of its own. So basically we should worry about today. Just trust me with today. And it's a very non-sexy concept, right? It's kind of living in the moment and the present. I think it's becoming maybe more attractive. There's even a lot of other faith religions that have adopted the teachings of Jesus there and have made that a faith practice. And I think it's interesting to note, but it's really been true in my life. I got to wake up today and say, how do I love my kids in my family today? How do I be the best me today? How do I help somebody in my life today? How do I live open-handed today or be generous today? And then it's really shocking and surprising to see where God leads you. And I think a lot of my contentedness in life comes from the fact that I'm not seeking a specific destination because ultimately we have a greater destination than that in kind of our life with God. I'm just not vying for one specific goal. I was just going to I hear Judas say stuff like that. Oh, I just, just stay in today, be president in the moment, take it day by day. And for me, that fits his God-given personality. So it's not that I discredit it, but I think, okay, nice for you to say, buddy, you've never worried a day in your life. But David, for me to hear you say that, and I see how you run the organization, you have amazing goals and incredible plans. So you have- Very driven. Very driven. So you have these plans and this goal and this drive that I think is so beautiful and God-given for you and your personality. But to take that and still be open-handed with it and be content in today and not have a specific destination that you feel like you need to arrive at, I think is just one of the most incredible life lessons for people to actually grab hold of and realize that it's not of personality trait to be content in today. But I truly think that we manufacture these things that create anxiety around like we have to, and we must, and these external pressures, like January 1st rolls around, everybody makes a list. I'm not, I mean, and I'm all for New Year's resolutions, but let's also look at the stats around the failure of New Year's resolutions, right? And so,

21:34 yeah, I just think there's a lot of external pressures. And I think we love stuff that we can put our handles on, right? Like we love to feel like we're more in control than we actually are. And I think that's when life gets ahold of you and helps you realize that you're not in control anywhere near as much as you think you are. It can be a discouraging thought, or it can be a freeing thought. And I've just decided, Hey, that's adventure for me. We've made a commitment in our family, anything that we believe God asks us to do. And I say that with an asterisk, because you're like, how do I know if God's asking me to do something? It can be through a feeling of, Hey, there's two doors open. I feel anxiety thinking about one and peace. When I think about the other to us, that could be God telling us to move in a direction. Or like I said, maybe the two or three times where I literally felt like I heard a voice in my head telling me something extremely rare. Right. But whatever we feel like that is, we're just going to say yes to it. And if that means that, you know, I'm asked to move to Frankfurt, Germany tomorrow, I don't want to, but I'm down. Let's go. Whatever we feel like God's asking us to do. And that's the adventure that we get to live in living a life of faith. It's not the white picket fence. And if it does end up being a white picket fence, great, but that's not the goal. And is that something that you, I don't know, had to learn, got to learn? Because if I remember your story, right, you got divorced and then you went from being an investment banker, making a great amount of money to being a young life leader and I think raising support or on a really small salary or using an entirely different skill set, if nothing else, than you had gone to school for and learned in the early days of your career. How did that happen and what was that transition like for you? Because I would imagine that had to feel like quite an adventure. Yeah, I felt like I had talents and gifts to make money. And so I was going to do that. And there's even people in the Bible who do that, right?

23:12 Paul, he makes money so that he can basically pay for his own traveling ministry. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to make money so that I can go give it to the church or give it to different ministries. And I'm going to invest my time into people. And that's what I'm going to do. And there came a really scary moment where, you know, we're touching on all the moments that I feel like I kind of hear from God in my life. So just for anybody listening, like I'm not that spiritual. We're touching on significant moments in my life. But I remember I was actually had transitioned. I was working for a tech company and I felt like I was supposed to put my name in the hat for a role with Young Life. It was a 350% decrease in pay from what I was making in tech. And I called a buddy of mine. I'm like, Hey man, maybe, maybe all God wants for me is just to kind of apply, put my name in the hat. And that's enough. Like, of course, one thing leads to another. I go down the whole road and I don't need to get into it all. But thankfully, Jenna was in the picture at that point. So she knew what she was signing up for. So I think God's brought us both on this journey where we both thought, hey, the path is going to be business and financial security and success and really gave all that up, took a role with Young Life after 10 years of being in the business world, making the least money I'd ever made in my life.

24:25 but simultaneously being about as fulfilled as I've ever been in the fact that my vocation, as far as job also matched up to what I was most passionate about. And I recognize that I think that's happening more in society, but that's still a really rare combo. But once again, if we feel like we're being asked or led to do something, we're going to do it no matter what that faith looks like. And so that was a huge one for me. It was leading the traditional path of kind of climbing the ladder and each resume piece looking better than the last, I, for all intents and purposes, took like five jumps down the ladder to do what I felt like I was supposed to do. And I think that's what excites me about this moment is you, for me personally, as I've said, and I think for Chelsea, I think it's what Jenna admires about you as well. There's a quality in you, David, that I think any listener can really attach to. And that is your life hasn't been predictable. It just hasn't. The high highs and the low lows have spoken so much to your friends and now the staff that you lead and the community that you are running. Now I want to ask another like pithy question because Chelsea's been doing all the talking. Stop. I ask questions, but they're short.

25:41 Your questions take like a solid three minutes. I want to do it. That's so true. I want to do a test. I swear up to this point, you have more word time than I do. Okay. All right. The listeners can't see, but I'm nodding my head. Yes, David. Okay. Everybody relax. What is one word that you think would somehow encapsulate your distinct journey with Jesus? Because I have one and it could be totally wrong, but it's how your journey has impacted me and kind of how I perceive you in a way. But could you?

26:33 Could you put one word to this wild, crazy journey so far that you've lived? Yeah, I mean, I'm way more curious in what words you have in your brain right now. For sure. Now he's not thinking. Yes. So you have to promise not to change it. Promise. I'm trying to think of a different word, but it's the only one that's come to my mind. And I don't mean it, I think, in the terms that it's normally used in within faith communities, but it's just surrender. And I say that in a way that's not trying to be like, yeah, you just got to surrender your life to God. It's just literally daily waking up and just inviting God in and saying, OK, God, will you just make my desires your desires or help me to want the same things you want me to want? Do you know what I mean? And I think faith is a component of that. And I think, you know, faith is a gift in the Bible, too. and one we can ask for, and God will actually help us to increase that. But I do think that my natural propensity, I think God created me with more of a gift towards faith, if you will, which has, I think, been incredibly special as I've become a part of this faith community and helped lead this faith community, given the traditions of Eve and Judah, your mom and your dad, where City Church and now Church Home has come from.

27:42 I find that pretty significant. But that's the first word that came to my mind. And yeah, I'm curious what you've got, though. I love that because I think if anyone's taking anything away from this conversation, I do hope that they get that critical moment, that acute moment, that moment of deep concentration and consecration where you said you felt God say let go. And you even said, David, we build up some things that stress us out. It's the construction of our own thought process that bring us to these really stressed out spaces. So letting go. I love that. What would your one word? My word would have been faith. which David alluded to, but you've made us so curious about what you are. Have I? That's exciting. You built the tension and you've like... Here it is. The one word for me that has impacted me and kind of summarizes David Kroll, bear with me, it's desperation. And here's why. Consecration is a significant theme in the Hebrew scripture and to an extent, the New Testament scripture. And I think consecration really is akin to desperation. I'm a Bible college student. I don't even know all the way what consecration means. Yeah. It's setting yourself apart for, you know, God's plan or God's word. Right. But I think David did that. But what has hit me is David, since you were eight, you had this overwhelming sense of death. Is it the end? Is it just utter darkness? And I think it has produced in you a true desperate approach when it comes to the divine. And I actually think we all should be so desperate. Like, God, my life isn't going to work without you. My life isn't going to make sense without you. And I could literally get emotional because we have sat in many meetings with David and Jenna. And I was in those meetings and I saw the emotion in your eyes and in your body when it was like, I love the people I'm serving. And now I'm asking to go to a new place.

29:43 And there was a, just a desperation for God. And I think Jesus has been so real to you and choosing to follow Jesus cost you in so many ways that it is produced almost a clinging. And I know this is now, now we're getting into like, I'm a preacher, but there's this. Oh, now you haven't been preaching. Okay. Everybody relax. But there's this woman who had this flow of blood this issue. And she wiggles her way through the crowd at one point, and she grabs hold of the hem of Jesus' garment because she believes that just by touching the Messiah, just by touching the holy man, the God-man, that she would be healed and cured. And I think a lot of David Kroll's superpower is you are still that guy. You're still the young man who is going, God if you're real I believe you're Jesus and I believe that the Hebrew scriptures have led me to you and I still see you as that guy clinging to Jesus going oh my word I see you as a dad doing that I see you as a husband doing that I see you as a leader doing that and I think in preparation for this interview I was like what is it that impacts me about David and it there is a level of like, bro, without Jesus, I wouldn't be here.

31:03 And I just admire that a lot. Yeah, I think David in general, the admiration that Judah and I have for you is so deep. And it's not just because of what you do, although you do your job with so much excellence. It really is who you are at the core of who you are. And we just admire you to such a depth. We normally close with two things. One is a toolkit and the second is a prayer. I just wanna give a simple tool and then David, I'd love it if you would close out this episode. in prayer. Normally we ask guests if they would like to, but you're on staff at church. I'm not giving you no option here. You don't get an option. I think David, what's so beautiful about your story in hearing the desperation, hearing the detours, hearing the moments where you just felt empty and realizing that in all of that, God had you. And even though you didn't know the plan and you didn't have a plan, he did have a plan. Oddly enough, the tool I would love to give today isn't something that we do. Normally our toolkit is much more practical. Here's a step that you do.

32:03 Here's a practice that you can involve in. It's actually a gift that you receive. And I would love to leave listeners with the gift of hope. If you feel like you're not where you're supposed to be, or you're not where you thought you would be, you haven't ruined your life, you haven't abandoned it, but that you really can have a deep measure of hope exactly where you are. So I'd love to give you that gift. David, do you want to close this out in prayer and anything else you want to say? Yeah, for sure. And even just to tag onto that too, Chelsea, for me coming into working in a church context after being a guy who had a divorce, I would just add onto that just so many lies we can hear in our heads around why we're disqualified for different things. That was one that was really significant for me when I came on as a youth pastor. And I was sitting there and it took me a while to be even comfortable with that, just with my past and it being okay to be where I was.

33:00 And I just think there's probably somebody who's listening who maybe has had either a similar thing in their past, whether it's a relationship fall down or some other failure where they think they're disqualified from even their ability to step into the next season, whatever that may be. And so just encouragement that hope that you're talking about, Chelsea. I think it's just, it's real. Let me pray. God, thank you so much for these moments of conversation. God, I just thank you for the incredible journeys that you have. Everybody who's listening right now on, God, I pray that you would help people in their times of need, that you would meet them there, that you would show to each of us how real you are in the moments where we, like Judah said, are just in desperation and help us to recognize how desperate we are, even when we feel like we have it all together. God, I thank you for the hope that we have in you, for your tremendous love for us. God, I pray that you bless everybody listening right now in Jesus' name. Amen.

33:52 Amen. Thank you, David, so much. This has been a presentation of OBB Sound, SB Projects, and Cadence 13. Executive produced by Chelsea Smith, Judah Smith, Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Elias Tanner, Scooter Braun, Scott Manson, James Shin, and Chris Corcoran. Produced by Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop of OBB Sound and Kyle Vanuja of SB Projects. Produced by Lauren LaGrasso and Serena Regan of Cadence 13. Edited, mixed, and mastered by Daniel Chavez Crook, with editing support from Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop. Original composition by Colin Gileard. Production support from Kristen Crosby and Dylan Martyr. OBB Sound is an OBB Media Company. Cadence 13 is an Odyssey Company.