The Myth of Work-Life Balance

0:00 I thought I was done throwing golf clubs and then last week I threw like two clubs in front of the most meek, kind, sweet pastor. Oh, you did not. Pastor Dave? Pastor Dave from Napa Valley. And I just was kicking my club and throwing it and yeah, I had to apologize after. He's like, no, I kind of enjoyed it. You put on a good show. I put on a good show.

0:20 These days, the lines between work and life feel blurrier than ever. In a world that's constantly telling us we need to work harder, slowing down doesn't seem like an option. But when we fail to honor our lives outside of work, we tend to place ourselves on the path to exhaustion. Yeah, that's why today we're discussing what it means to create boundaries between our work lives and our real lives. So that we can prevent burnout, find fulfillment, and get the rest we truly need. Stick with us. This is In Good Faith. I'll never forget that Monday morning when I woke up. It was pretty early.

1:13 It was about 7 a.m. And I didn't know where I was. And I think we've all had those experiences where you wake up from a dream and you're just a little disoriented. Or you wake up in a hotel room. Yeah, this was, I'm in the kitchen by now. I've looked out the window to realize I am, in fact, on the east side of Seattle. But I don't know what month it is. I don't know what day it is. I don't know what year it is. I know that I'm married to you. I know I have kids. Let's not get wild and crazy. But something was going on, and I didn't know what it was. And I ended up calling a pastor friend, and he said, tell me your symptoms. And I told him. and he said, you are on the verge of burnout and breakdown and you need to change something now. And what had you been doing leading up to that point for the weeks previous? I had done eight Sundays in a row where I had done seven sermons every Sunday for eight straight weeks.

2:07 And the Wednesdays in between that, you flew to LA. Flew to LA. And preached. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, and preached in LA. So I think I was doing 10 sermons, counting Wednesday and Sunday. I did that for eight weeks. on the ninth week. If you remember the Saturday night, I knew I couldn't preach on Sunday. So my buddy did because I just felt deeply tired, unusually tired. And so I tried to sleep. I think I slept a lot on Sunday. But by the time Monday morning rolled around, I was disoriented with a capital D. I think I was in a very real state of burnout and breakdown in my brain and my body, having nothing to do, frankly, with my spiritual, emotional state. Yeah, you'd been great up until that point. And the thing is, you love to preach. You feel like you were made for it. You love that. It's almost like you loved it so much that you still reached this point of absolute and utter burnout when it came to your work and your life and trying to navigate how do we live a life? How do we work a job? How do we fulfill a calling, which is what for us, our job has really felt like. You and I both have experienced a level of burnout in relating to doing this the wrong way. And I hope that our conversation today can give hope to people who feel like they're on the verge of burnout or feel like they might be close or even feel like it's inevitable, but really help people avoid what you and I experienced. And I want to unbad burnout, you know meaning it's not bad you are not bad you didn't do something wrong necessarily in this case burnout was actually because we were having so much fun we were enjoying it we thought this is the best life this is the best thing to do let's get on a plane let's go to LA let's go back to Seattle let's preach preach preach and it seemed awesome until suddenly it wasn't not to mention the fact that our kids at this point were probably three five and seven and so so many people consider that the solution to burnout is this phrase called work-life balance.

4:13 When I say work-life balance, what do you think of? How do you define it? What comes to your mind when that gets said? I don't know. The word gross comes to mind. And that's sad. And no offense to anyone out there whose work-life balance is your mantra. But I think balance is a little unrealistic in real life. I believe in being where you are fully and completely. But I think the man, the woman, the person who's constantly thinking of balance is a really awkward person to watch walk. When you walk, you don't think of balance and yet you can't walk without balance. But balance is a little more instinctive than I think that is intentional at times. And so we have discovered that a lot of people who their mantra is balance become a little bit preoccupied and caught up and are sometimes incapable, I should say, of really enjoying the moment and giving themselves to it. Yeah. When I hear balance, I think of one of those old fashioned scales that had- At the doctor's office?

5:08 No, no, no. No, I'm thinking older than that, where there was a stick in the middle and like two trays on the side. One was a 50 pound weight, and then you would add 50 pounds of whatever to the other side. And when it was level, then you would know it was balanced. But the picture there is these two sides are in competition with each other. These two sides are in tension with each other. And as soon as you add something to one side, it takes away from the other side. And so that's what I've never loved about balance is it feels like I'm living this life where there is a tension between my work life and my personal life. And they're always fighting against each other and competing for my time and for my attention. And it's left me feeling disjointed and that I'm never going to get this right, that one is always winning and the other is always losing. Yeah. And I guess the best explanation of why you and I hesitate on the concept of living a balanced life is that's not how you parent humans. That's not how you do a marriage. You know, if I told you, hey, babe, I'm really trying to balance our marriage and sermon prep, you'd be like, excuse me, they are not equals. They are not competing. Excuse me. Could you imagine saying to our kids, oh, hey, Elliot, we're really trying to balance our time with you with our time with work.

6:22 We're putting our children or our marriage on the same level priority-wise. And you're making them competitors, and they don't have to be. Now, when we decided to build a family and a culture and environment in our family, the Smith family home, we just didn't want to come home to kids who were like, all right, when are you going to give us attention instead of your work attention? It was always we wanted this integration. Yeah, and the reality is our life is very unique in the sense that our job feels like more of a calling to us. It's very integrated into our weekend life, our personal life, our evening life. It's very much a part of who we are. We would say we would do our job even if we didn't get paid to do it. Do you think that reaction to balance between work and life is unique to us because our lives are so enmeshed? Yeah, I mean, I think it is in a way, actually. But we have friends that are baristas and school teachers and coaches.

7:17 And there's this look we get in our eyes when we talk to them like, well, you just come home and you leave work wherever it is, you know, and that's exciting. But I would warn people out there listening. It's been said, love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life. I hate that statement. I think the idea of not working a day in your life is not a good concept. I think responsibility is a privilege and an honor. Having said that, if you love what you do, you are far more at risk for burnout than not. Because boundaries are not as obvious, overt, and clear because you're like, I love this. I don't feel like I'm working. In my case, the reason I went eight weeks doing seven sermons every Sunday and two in Los Angeles every Wednesday, it's not because I despised it. It's because I loved it.

8:09 I thought this was the best life ever. And I dreamed of days like that. Yeah, it's almost you loved it so much. It didn't feel like work. Yeah, so I was giving it everything. We were never intentional with that season about creating boundaries, but we loved it so much. And he gave him a job to do. He gave work is part of the biblical narrative. When the earth was perfect, when there was no pollution, when there was no selfishness, when there was no envy, when there was nothing wrong in the world, God put Adam in the Garden of Eden and he gave him a job to do. He gave him work. And so work is actually part of God's original plan. Work and responsibility are actually a part of our self-care regimen and routine. I think having that mentality and that mindset that it's not work versus self-care, it's not work versus me taking care of my family, that it is actually a gift. It's a delight. It's an honor. It's a privilege and it's something that is necessary for me.

9:06 But we need to remember going back to the Hebrew scripture and the biblical narrative that something entered into the world. Adam and Eve did what they weren't supposed to do and their relationship with work changed. And what changed was an element of striving. God said to Adam, you will now bear fruit by the sweat of your brow that you are going to strive and your relationship with work is going to be tied to strife, striving, making things happen, grinding it out. And that's where I think work turns from self-care to something that we need to avoid. What you're describing is how the old way of relating to God began to play out when selfish decisions were made. But then Jesus comes on the scene and he restores this new way of living, which really is this no striving, no stressing, no straining. And so it's learning to, I think, establish a new relationship with your responsibilities. It's not a have to, it's a get to, but it's also a get to with boundaries.

10:10 Yeah. For me, striving, I find I strive in my job specifically, and maybe this is more something as a woman, I wonder if you feel the same way. When I feel that my identity is tied to my professional performance, that's when I find myself striving that, okay, I'm only going to look good. I'm only going to be successful in life if I'm crushing this podcast right now. And if I feel that way, then I'm striving. I'm self-conscious. I come to this with stress and anxiety and fear because it's my identity is tied to my work performance. Do you deal with that? Yeah. Well, I think I attach to the outcome by attaching to the outcome, good or bad. There is a stress to that and a striving to that. And I think in the case of that fateful Monday, what ended up happening was those eight weeks were hugely successful, meaning the outcome was very productive. The church was at an all-time high in terms of attendance and growth and momentum. And yet, simultaneously, I was unwell. And I think you've experienced unwell seasons as well.

11:12 But they weren't connected to a negative outcome. It was that the outcome was so productive and so positive, we kept telling ourselves, we got to keep going. I keep going. But it's interesting. The reason I kept going wasn't because of the outcome so much as it was the perception of me. I wanted to be perceived as somebody who was working hard, somebody who was diligent, somebody who was gifted and talented in what I was doing and that I was worthy of this position that I had been given. And so that's where I went beyond. Almost like approving and earning and I worked for this, I accomplished this. Yep. Yep. And so that part of my identity was tied to that. And that brought me to a place of striving. But interesting that for you, it was tied to the outcome. Yeah, good or bad. So if it didn't work out, it's like, well, I didn't do good enough. And if it did work out, I got to keep doing what I did so well. So striving is what keeps work from being refreshing, I think. Maybe not always refreshing, but at least fulfilling. Fulfilling. Something that's beneficial for our souls. So if somebody finds themselves striving when it comes to their job, and I'm not even saying when it comes to earning a paycheck, because there is something very real about, I need to feed my family. I need to put a roof over our head. And there is a striving that comes with that, that I think is different than what we're talking about. I'm talking about this sense that I have to do more in my job to do good at my job. I have to go beyond myself. I have to grind. I have to hustle, you know, all those things. That's to me, a level of striving that just wreaks havoc on our souls. Yeah. And that really is what we're trying to avoid. That really is what we're trying to say. Can I identify that in my life? Is that happening right now to me?

12:54 And I think where it all starts is being mindful of that. Chelsea and I are just trying to encourage you. Hey, can you at least ask the important question? Am I striving? Do I have signs of stress? What's going on in my life right now? In real time, full disclosure, while we're recording this, I've had like either an allergic reaction in my body or stress in my body. We're trying to figure out what it is. I've lost significant hair, but I've also got kind of a rash and it's bizarre. And maybe this is called 43, you know, but we're trying to be honest about that. We're constantly monitoring where you are in your unique journey, probably because of striving and feeling like you needed to prove and show and demonstrate, which you are a very hard worker. So I just want to say for this episode, we are the furthest thing from experts. We are actually in the middle of our career, maybe like the beginning or the middle of the third quarter here, using, you know, NBA basketball as the metaphor. And we're not even in the fourth quarter yet. So we're very much in the game. And we're asking ourselves right now, are we striving? Are we stressing?

14:02 Are we straining? Is work and responsibility a blessing? Or are we treating it like something just to get through, get done, and hope the outcome's awesome? So what would you say the ideal is? What does a picture of work without striving look like? Well, don't you think there has to be some detachment? And that's why I say, let's be mindful so that we can ask ourselves. Because honestly, I feel a little bit embarrassed. I know we've done therapy. We've met with counselors and, of course, our marriage coaches. And we've talked about this. But even today, it seems really insightful to hear you say, my striving came from, I want people to see my really good work ethic.

14:58 And I want people to see that I'm really working hard and I'm not lazy. I think growing up, you heard lazy a lot. And of course, when I say you were said to be lazy because of your approach, I think it's actually your lack of competition. You don't compete with others. You're not motivated by glitz, glamour, fame, fortune. You're very much internally motivated. And so you've always thought, I'm not going to be lazy. Yeah, it's interesting. I can look back now as an adult and realize I just kind of have an innate contentment. But I can see how as a teenager, my parents would have wondered, is she lazy? Does she have a drive? Does she have a dream? Does she have a vision? Is she going to live in our basement forever?

15:37 I think identifying what part of my core am I wrongfully attaching to my work? What part of my identity makes me strive? For you, you're so competitive. And I know when you say outcome, it's about winning. You want to win so much. And I'll say I'm most competitive with myself. I want to be a better preacher than I was last week. You know, I think about other friends that we have. And I know that some of our friends are motivated to prove their parents wrong. They're motivated to prove the fifth grade teacher wrong. Their striving comes from people who said they couldn't do it. I have a friend whose science teacher in elementary school said you'll never amount to anything. And he's become a pro athlete. And I wonder if actually we need to detach a little bit from that to actually take an honest assessment of where are we? Are we healthy? Are we OK? I'm OK with being a world beater. I understand the mamba mentality and Kobe and like, you know, all the naysayers and all the haters, we're going to prove them wrong.

16:34 But that kind of energy can actually eventually turn toxic in your personal life. And I think we're acknowledging that today. And then, OK, what do we do from here? Truly until this conversation, I had not put together the label that was put on me of laziness and my need to prove myself. Wow. that I'm not, which led me into not a good place physically. That's wild. And for me, I've been on a stage since I was eight or nine years old. My dad would put the microphone in my face, and I was told that I would be really, really great at what I do. The pastors and leaders would come through my dad's church and say, your son's going to be great. And so it's like, well, I got to be great. Because that's what I was told that I was going to be. But what's interesting is you were called lazy. I was called great. We're both struggling with the same thing. Right. It's hard. So what do we say to our kids?

17:25 Do we call them lazy? Do we call them great? How do we help them along? I would call them by their name. Oh, Jesus help us, it feels like. But I think we try to give them the tools, which is, hey, you got to go to Jesus. You have to have a source where you can find something that isn't what you've been called one way or the other, but you find your identity in something other than your performance. That's right. Because if you start focusing and obsessing on, you can't strive. stop striving, quit stressing, quit striving. That's what's producing so much negative, toxic energy and emotion in your body. It's like, well, now you're obsessive about not striving. And now you're striving to not strive. You're stressing to not stress. And so there's a real dead end there. And that's why we started this whole podcast by saying, listen, you're not bad if you're in the middle of burnout, if you're in the beginning stages of burnout, if you've recovered from burnout, you're not bad. You're called human. This is very, very normal, no matter who you are. Okay. So now what do we do from here? Yeah. First of all, I want to ask, is it even possible to actually live a life where we feel fulfilled in our job, where we feel at rest and peace in our souls? We feel like we're giving our children and our marriages and our relationship the time and the attention that they need and to have all of those things working together in harmony. Is it even possible in the world that we're living in? Yeah, it is possible, but it's not possible quickly. I don't think there's any quick fix. It's a lot like cords when they get all tangled. And my least favorite thing about tangled cords is that you can't just pull them loose. You know, you get a real good tangle with your Apple TV cords and you're like trying to detangle them. The harder you pull, the more tangled it gets. The more tangled it gets.

19:07 The knot gets tighter. And I think you just going to have to take some mindfulness, some honest assessment, and it's probably going to take some days, identify the sources of each chord, if you will, and say, okay, what am I doing? Friday night was date night for us. We went and had a nice conversation, emotional conversation. Well, it almost always is with me. And I was in tears and I was talking about a little sadness that I'm experiencing. And we just started identifying things. And you asked, you know, what's really helpful? And what's not helpful is when I look at my day and I see a really, really full day. And then at the next day, really full and the next day really full. All of a sudden that spontaneity or that little bit of window and margin that I need to make a phone call to send a text to Watch Sports Center, I really start to experience sadness. Yeah. And I like how you've moved on this conversation. We really started out with the internal and there are just internal things that we need to identify, fix, work on in order to have a healthy, holistic life that is including our job, our relationships, caring for our souls. But then there's also some external things that we can do that we need to work on and really just learn how to put some good habits in place externally so that we can have a healthy life. It's so ironic to me when I think back about when you and I started our jobs. We started working together while I was a receptionist. You were a janitor at the church that your parents started. But remember back then in 1999, there were offices And in an office was a computer and a phone.

20:42 And most of the work that you would do other than people was tied to that computer and that phone. So you did your work in the office and then we would come home and we didn't take our big old computer with us. We didn't take our work phone with us. And then we came home and we would be home and we'd talk about work and still care about it and think about it. But there wasn't an expectation that we would still be performing on our jobs once we got home. That has completely changed. and now it seems like your personal life is with you in your job because your kids can text you, call you, emergencies can happen. Your job is with you in your home because you can get an email, you can get a text, and our lives are so enmeshed. We need some really practical, significant tools so that we can have a healthy external life. I'm going to make a very, very honest statement here. My phone is on airplane mode right now while we're recording this podcast, which is interesting that the phone companies internationally call it airplane mode because in reality, I actually don't know what exactly I would have done without some of those airplane flights. Those airplane flights, they were like a synthetic going back in time. I never got on the Wi-Fi. I just literally was like, I'm on a plane. And that two and a half hour flight from Seattle to LA or LA to Seattle became my little bubble, became my little world to study, be by myself, gather my thoughts. And you said very clearly today, you're like, I need you to put your phone on airplane mode as we prepare this podcast. And you're like, listen, this isn't going to work if you are in the office while we're recording a podcast. But think about that. That's insane.

22:40 In what world can you record a podcast, but also be on phone calls? But that's the technological age that we're in. And I say that to say the detangling of these cords and wires is not a quick process. And you're going to have to be intentional and you're going to have to work at it a little bit. And I have noticed that probably what takes the most effort and the most work is margin, rest, consistency every single day because of the enormous amount of invasion and eruption now because the technological age, which is not all bad, but it certainly can produce negative things in our brain and body. Yeah, we're living in such a unique time that we started literally working from home two and a half years ago. Our office has become my bedroom. Literally. Literally, my office is my bedroom. And those boundaries are so unclear. But I have to believe there is a plan. There is a way. There is something that we can all work towards as human beings to find wholeness and health and peace in our life. Let me ask you a very specific question.

23:46 What is the single most important needed boundary the Smith family ever put in? Oh, you ask for one and I'm going to give you two. Okay, I like it. But these are mine and not the Smith family because I think I know you and I are so different and our work styles are so different. And so that's been a journey for us for sure. But first of all, for me, because everything I went through physically, I cannot push my body. If I get to a point and I know I feel it in my throat, I feel it in my glands. I get clammy and sweaty and I have a commitment or something that I'm supposed to do and I go do it anyway, I'll end up in bed for the next two days. And I have learned, unfortunately, the hard way that it's not worth it. But for me, I hate looking like a flake. I hate looking lazy. I hate having some place that I was supposed to show up or be that I don't end up going to or being at. But I have just had to learn the hard way to listen to my body when I feel that way.

24:43 say, I'm sorry, I can't do it. Now, hopefully I've learned some things. So I don't get to that place. I've learned how to plan better. I've learned how to say no. I've learned how to schedule. I've learned how to go to bed when I need to go to bed, you know? So there's a lot of things that keep me from there. Hopefully tools that I've learned, but definitely listening to my body has been a boundary for me, which is very ambiguous and has nothing to do with you. But in order to listen to my body, I've had to overcome the fear of being viewed as flaky or lazy. The second thing for me, which I've also talked about on the podcast before, is having a day for me that is a non-work day. I call it a Sabbath. It's a biblical word. It's where I don't have any expectation where I'm supposed to accomplish anything. Can't do an email. Can't accomplish anything. Can't accomplish anything. Can't do a project around the house. I can't do an assignment for school. I literally have a day where I cannot accomplish anything. And it's amazing to me what the expectation of that day will do for me throughout the week. I know I have a day coming. So no matter how crazy Wednesday is, I know I have a day coming.

25:43 So those have been the things that have been significant for me personally, not having anything to do with our family or our job. What about for you? Without question, what comes to mind is seeing no, not as a weakness. I think I grew up, say yes to God, say yes to everything. When I was young, 16, 17, 18, my mom said, you're going to say yes to every speaking request. Wherever anyone asks you to come speak, you're just going to say yes and you're going to go. And so I did. But what that began to teach me was you always say yes to God, which got a little wonky and a little weird and a little murky because it was like anything related to God, if I was asked to do it, I had to say yes because that was yes to God. That could be a boss. That could be your wife. That could be any number of things you could place in there. So this idea of saying no to people, hey, can you come over? You want to play golf? You want to have some pizza?

26:35 You want to watch the game? It's still hard for me to say no. No seems somehow like I'm too tired, I'm weak, I'm weary, I don't love people, I'm not available, I'm not there. A friend of mine recently told me that he's like, I think your superpower is boundaries. I guess what that means is no. I have gotten far more comfortable saying no. And I don't mean no to bad things, of course. I'm talking about no to good, good stuff and good, good people. And you know what's interesting is you're saying that we obviously have people who work for us. And whenever they have said no to us at a request that we have given, it's actually brought me more security. It's made me realize they really do love their job. It's helped me think they're going to be here for the long haul. And so it's not just that you and I are, quote unquote, the bosses. And so we have this privilege of being able to say no, but for everybody to truly exercise a no. And I feel like if you're working in an environment where no is not an option, then maybe that's a conversation you should have with your boss.

27:36 but no should always be an option. And you should always feel that you are capable, energized, strengthened to say no. And when you say no, you are not weak. You are not weary. In fact, I would argue that oftentimes by saying no, you prove that you're far stronger because more often than not, it's easier to say yes than no. But it's a sign that your identity isn't attached to your performance. Because saying no is always inevitably letting somebody down. It's not living up to somebody's expectations. But when we can do that from a healthy place without feeling guilty, without feeling full of regret, because if we feel that way, then the no wasn't worth it. If we're just carrying all this regret and all this guilt around with us, then it wasn't worth it. We may as well just said yes and done the thing. But if we can say no from a healthy place, that's a great sign that our identity isn't tied to our performance. So then here's my question for all of our friends listening. Are you using your no? And when are you using your no? And how are you using your no? How consistently are you using your no? How effectively are you using your no? And when's the last time you said no to something really good?

28:46 Yeah. And I think a prequel to a no is expectations. That when you take a job, if your expectation is that you have a day that you don't get anything done, that you communicate beforehand, hey, just so you know, on Saturdays, I have a personal practice that I exercise called a Sabbath. I don't respond to emails or texts on Saturdays. Or setting up the expectation of, hey, I have three teenagers, just so you know, family dinners are a really special time for us. So I'm never available on my phone after seven o'clock or after six o'clock. Setting things up, not just to ourselves, but to the people in our professional world, actually communicating those expectations can be really helpful and beneficial so that we don't have to use our no so often and feel so bad. And I really believe as we live this way, we aren't getting our identity from our job. Our identity is just firmly rooted in who we are and who we've been made to be and what Jesus has done for us, that we can have such a settling and we can have a peace and we can live a life in harmony, not a life of balance. That's very good. I love harmony over balance. But can I ask, what were the early signs? In your case, I feel like we probably didn't take note of the early signs of your physical body trying to tell you, I can't keep this up. I'm thinking about people listening to this episode going, okay, yeah, cool, cool, cool.

30:10 Wait, does this apply to me? I know each person is uniquely an individual, but what signs can we look for? Yeah, I go back to the months leading up to what I dealt with physically. And the clearest thing I can remember, and I think I mentioned this in the podcast, was sitting in the closet, looking at my suitcase that I was supposed to pack, literally on my hands and knees, not even having the energy to stand up and pack a suitcase, but yet pushing through and doing it anyway. And the reason I pushed through and did it anyway is because I loved it. I loved the people in LA. I loved the people in Seattle. I wanted to be in both places. So it wasn't that I didn't love it, but what I loved became a drudgery. What I loved wasn't giving me energy anymore. It was just taking, taking, taking energy because I was pushing beyond what I could do. if your job becomes something that you despise, if it becomes a drudgery, I think that's a sign of burnout. I couldn't agree more. The strongest answer I can give from where I sit right now is you start to hate what you love and love what you hate. Either one of those, I think, are a real signal to you. I actually think it's because we're on the verge of burnout. We're tired. We're exhausted. And so the thing you despise, destroying your marriage, losing the respect of your children, losing your job maybe in some cases because you slept with a co-worker.

31:36 Well, those are things that you don't like. You don't want to lose your job. You don't want to lose your marriage. You don't want to lose the respect of your kids. You don't want to hurt your friends. But we start to get attracted to and drawn to what we normally despise. And the idea here behind this podcast is, hey, before you sleep with the co-worker that you're not committed to and you hurt your partner, your best friend, your loved ones, ask yourself, wait a minute, am I on the verge of burnout? And to me, that's a sign of escape. You know, whether it's adultery or just eating a pint of ice cream every night or drinking a whole bottle of wine. It's I want to participate in behaviors that I can escape this pressure because I feel so close to burnout. I feel like I'm not doing good at work. I feel like I'm not doing good at home. I don't feel like I'm succeeding anywhere. All I want to do is escape in this affair, escape in this bottle of wine, escape in this gallon of ice cream, escape in this Netflix show. And all of a sudden, escape behaviors are the only thing that are giving us joy in life. I definitely think that is a sign that we're close to burnout. What would you say as we conclude to someone who's like, all right, all right, all right, you got me. I think this episode has identified for me that I am either on the verge of burnout or maybe in the beginning stages or in the middle of it.

32:51 oh man, what do I do now? I would say even following the trajectory of this conversation, start from the inside and work your way out. Start from the inside. What are you grasping for? What are you hoping for? What deficiencies are there internally that are driving you externally? And if you can't find anything on the inside, work your way out. Say, okay, what are some habits that I need to change? What are some physical habits, some social habits, some lifestyle changes, some external things that need to be made and let yourself dream that it's possible. I just, I look at our kids and the life that they're living in the way that this generation is growing up. And I just wonder if there's even a hope that it's a possibility. And maybe it just needs to start with letting yourself dream that it's possible. And then letting that dream take you to a place where you didn't think possible and help you make the decisions and say the no and put the expectations out there and all those practical things that we talked about, but letting that dream really be your fuel for how you can do it.

33:53 Wow. I absolutely love that. And in a moment, I'm going to close this in prayer. You know, from our tradition and where we sit, what we believe is the truest thing in the universe, we would say, you know, hey, go to God, you know, ask him, what's driving me? Is it lazy? Is it greatness? Is it I've lost my dream? What is my dream? And, you know, if you don't hear anything from the divine, we also encourage people to go to professionals that are talented and studied and prepared to help you identify these things. And boy, we've done both. And I would say both and, not either or. We've got coaches and counselors and therapists. And most importantly, the one who designed us and created us and put us together. And he will help us. And here's what I know. There is a God who wants you not to experience burnout more than you do. And that's amazing. I'm going to pray. Is that cool? Perfect. Okay.

34:44 God, thank you. You know us better than we know ourselves. And we're not going to sit here and pretend like we got all the answers. Nothing could be further from the truth. But you are actually the antidote and the answer. Give each and every one of us taking this moment of prayer and reprieve and rest and reflection. Give us the strength and the energy and the wisdom and the insight to know the steps we need to take so that we can truly live a fulfilled, content, and abundant life. Thank you, God. You're with us every single day. You never leave us or forsake us. Amen.

35:26 This has been a presentation of OBB Sound, SB Projects, and Cadence 13. Executive produced by Chelsea Smith, Judah Smith, Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Elias Tanner, Scooter Braun, Scott Manson, James Shin, and Chris Corcoran. Produced by Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop of OBB Sound and Kyle Vanuja of SB Projects. Produced by Lauren LaGrasso and Serena Regan of Cadence 13. Edited, mixed, and mastered by Daniel Chavez-Crook, with editing support from Caitlin Plummer and Eve Bishop. Original composition by Colin Gilliard. Production support from Kristen Crosby and Dylan Marder. OBB Sound is an OBB Media Company. Cadence 13 is an Odyssey Company.